[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh Overhead

James B. Holland PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com
Fri Mar 18 16:41:23 EST 2005


Sensitive  --  Yes and No!       A hanger missing on overhead strung for 
trolley pole  ((Please  See  URL  at  Very  End  of this Email))  will 
Most Always allow the trolley pole to pass without problem, even at 
normal speed for that section!       HowSomeEver.......       a broken 
// missing hanger on a curve built for pans-only will Guarantee a 
dewirement of the pan.        I-F  the trolley pole dewires  --  Just 
Put It Back On The Overhead.        If a pan dewires, well.......       
hope it remains on the vehicle but it can't be put back on the overhead 
without a shop call!
THE  Single  Biggest  Reason  for trolley pole dewirements is poor 
spring tension  --   remember, even the North Shore traveled in excess 
of 80-mph  Regularly and kept the poles on the overhead.       Mostly 
Tangent track but also remember, with only 25-30--pounds pressure  
(nominal wire height of 18-feet)  there is  MUCH  pounding from span to 
span with wire droop in between and at North Shore speeds the pole is 
passing 2.1734-spans a  *second*  ((117.34-feet/second at 80-mph))  with 
spans 100-feet apart and it won't take much to knock the pole off the 
overhead.

Pans can have poor spring tension as well and they will skip and bounce 
along the overhead thus losing contact momentarily and make for an 
unsmooth ride.

Too much speed on a sharp curve  *may*  cause a trolley pole to dewire 
but then the speed is probably uncomfortable for passengers if not 
unsafe period!

Shallow turnouts, spiral easements are most problematic for a trolley 
pole following at a turnout.       On a standard radius turnout the 
trolleycar has completed its turning away from the tangent as much as 
15-20--feet before the trolley pole hits the frog which forces the pole 
to follow the correct wire  --  Please Note that in such a turn, the 
trolley pole  Does  NOT  swing away from the car to the inside of the 
curve  --  the Trolley*Car*  actually turns underneath the pole  --  the 
pole is on tangent wire still even when the whole trolleycar is on the 
curve  --  In Reality, there is Very Little side to side movement of the 
trolley pole  --  The Most movement is coming out of the turn when the 
trolleycar is on tangent and the pole is still on the curve and it is 
necessary for the pole to swing back over the center of the car.

On a spiral easement the trolleycar is still in the processing of 
turning from the tangent into the nominal radius even up to the track 
frog so the pole is not trailing properly when the car is still in the 
process of turning.       This was most noticeable inbound at the north 
end of the Smithfield bridge after trackage rebuilt when B&O station was 
moved.       01.>--  Only experienced one dewirement here on an 
interurban, but I knew the potential was there.


The following are  *PRCo*  trolley pole dewirements in 20++ years of 
personal riding, railfanning, Sunday Pass riding from 6-AM to midnight, 
18hours/day, etc.:::::::

02.>--   Outbound 88-line on Penn first curve past Butler.

03.>--   Trailing turnout frog Stanwix / Fort Duquesne  --  ONLY 
1000-series cars.       Waited here for 4-hours watching every passing 
car and only 1000-series cars dewired, two cars, 2-dewirements!

04.>--   Dawn Jct. OB, 42 - shallow turnout  --  1-dewirement, car 1454.

05.>--   North Side passing under RR viaduct.

06.>--   4-dewirements on Interurban  (sometimes remained on Interurban  
ALL  day on Sunday pass.)

07.>--   3-dewirements in South Hills Jct. area which includes  ALL  prw 
through the yard, on the 40-line, 44,47,48, interurbans, 38,39,42  --  2 
a broken hanger whose ear then obstructed the overhead on the 38, 39, 42 
tracks just north of Palm Garden Jct. and one a car entering track-4 of 
the yard.


A total of 13-dewirements in 20++years on  *PRCo*  --  probably others 
but not many others.       This was Not a Frequent occurrence on  *PRCo.*



NEVER   A   Dewirement  in the vicinity of the SHJ Admin building nor 
within 400-feet any direction.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on the 87-Ardmore.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on the 56-McKeesport.

If I didn't ride interurbans All Day then a ride on the two above was a  
MUST.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 88-Frankstown.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 40-line

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 44-line

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 48-line

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 53-line

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 38-Mt.Lebanon.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 39-Brookline.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on 50-Carson.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on Fifth Avenue routes.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on Forbes Avenue routes.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on Second Avenue Routes.

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on West End Routes  --  but I never rode them, 
either!

NEVER   A   Dewirement  on Charters.


Jim__Holland


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I--Like__Ike.......AND__PCCs__AND___TrolleyPoles

Solly, Cholly  --  Had To Say This // That!

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Boris Cefer wrote:

> But the pole is more sensitive on any inequality. And the pantograph 
> simply can't follow wrong path on a trolley branch, which is possible 
> with the pole. I know that it does not happen often, but it is possible.
>
> B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:06 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh Overhead
>
>
>> Neither Do Trolley Poles!!!!!!! :-D
>>
>> J
>>
>>
>> Boris Cefer wrote:
>>
>>> That's all correct. I meant that pantographs do not "dewire" on 
>>> trolley which is OK.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:58 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh Overhead
>>>
>>>> Broken hanger / span ((on curve strung only for pans)) not noticed 
>>>> by operator will *probably* cause dewirement of pan -- with pan 
>>>> being ripped off the roof of the trolleycar!!!!!!!D> Can We Really 
>>>> Call them *TrolleyCars* If They Have Pans??!!:D>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Pan *Requires* overhead in Far Better Condition than that required 
>>>> for trolley pole -- pan is very slow to react to changes in wire 
>>>> height or other conditions -- pan will resist wire suddenly 
>>>> dropping lower which could potentially dmage pan, and will skip off 
>>>> the wire that rises too fast -- LOTS of bounce on pans here in SF 
>>>> at grade changes.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Boris Cefer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ugly is the correct word.
>>>>> And there is no chance to dewire with pantographs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boris
>>>>


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