[PRCo] Re: Interurban PCCs ???

[John Swindler]

Concerning M11, Jim, the power pedal might have been to the floor, but at 
the balancing speed, that doesn't do any good - except to maintain the car's 
speed at the balancing speed of the motors.

It's not the car's that have a balancing speed.  It's the motors.

John



>From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Interurban PCCs ???
>Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 01:14:38 -0800
>
>Well,  Glory__Be!!!!!!!
>
>We thought slip/slide was something developed with the electronic
>revolution  --  and here the PCCs had it 60-years ago.
>
>Whatever governors were on the lower series Air-Cars - 14s, 15s, 12s -
>didn't operate the same as on the 16s  --  power never shut off on the
>lower cars and EveryThing was vibrating at speed!       M11 took speed
>extremely well with little vibration, however  --  rode a charter out on
>Library and the power pedal was flat on the floor unless it was
>absolutely necessary to brake.      Very Interesting that the 17 on
>Library caught up to us at Castle Shannon Inbound  --  motorman on the
>charter thought it would even though we were moving at break neck speed
>with M11.
>
>
>Jim
>
>
>
>Boris Cefer wrote:
>
> > Slippage, skid.
> > The slip relays provided protection of main motors against excessive
> > speed due wheel slippage or they prevented creation of flat spots on
> > wheels in braking.
> > In acceleration the relays inserted some resistance in the power
> > circuit reducing the motor torque. In braking they inserted field
> > shunts with the same effect on the main motors - reduction of braking
> > torque.
> >
> > By the way, it looks that Westinghouse 14s and 15s had SG (speed
> > governor ?) relays. But I can't find them in schematic diagrams.
> >
> > B
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
> > To: "- 1714 PRCo__WP__JTC -" <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 10:02 AM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Interurban PCCs ???
> >
> >
> >> What is a Slip Relay, Please?
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Boris Cefer wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's a good idea! Ed, can you hear us? Put on your overalls :-)
> >>>
> >>> At this point we don't know what field shunting equipment the GE 16s
> >>> and 17s had (unfortunately there is no GE car to look at :-( ), but
> >>> there is at least evidence that GE 16 had overspeed
> >>> protection.       Now I see in the GE parts catalog that also GE 17s
> >>> had overspeed relays!       This "may" suggest that also GE cars
> >>> were capable of higher speed.
> >>>
> >>> Several PCC series had also slip relays (both W and GE 14s, 15s and
> >>> 16s), but it appears that they were removed or at least deactivated.
> >>>
> >>> B
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
> >>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 9:05 AM
> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Interurban PCCs ???
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Another clarification. As we are talking about only the 1700--1774
> >>>> WH cars, the same holds for the 1600 and 1601--1674 cars -- we do
> >>>> not know about GE in either series -- correct?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, PRCo trackage was rough relative to other properties, but it
> >>>> was in the early 1960s when I experienced the governor cut-out of
> >>>> power on both the 17s and 16s -- you could still get those cars
> >>>> rolling very nicely!
> >>>>
> >>>> Maybe Ed could check those jumpers on 1711 as Hands-On Training for
> >>>> his Electrical Engineering Degree!!!
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Boris Cefer wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> But the earlier books appear more detailed.
> >>>>> There are possibly some data in GE wiring diagrams, but I haven't
> >>>>> seen any except for the early air cars (1000-1200 series), but
> >>>>> they don't make me happy because the early GE design was terribly
> >>>>> complicated. GE parts catalogs do not contain any useful data,
> >>>>> these are endless lists of parts with some pictures only.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And an another question is still the Westinghouse 1700s. Their
> >>>>> equipment allowed to change the balancing speed by means of higher
> >>>>> field shunting. Only four small jumpers joined to the field
> >>>>> shunting resistors increased the balancing speed several mph, but
> >>>>> we don't have any evidence whether PRCo or later PAAC did not
> >>>>> dismantle them to avoid eventual accidents due extremely high
> >>>>> speed over irregular track. Memory is sometimes very delusive and
> >>>>> some few can tell us what the top speed was 50 years back. Our
> >>>>> friends at PTM would have to check whether the jumpers on 1711 are
> >>>>> in place...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> B
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
> >>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2005 10:17 PM
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Interurban PCCs ???
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Time to speculate why GE was so Resistant to include specific
> >>>>>> information!! :-)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Various PCCs had been *tested* for interurban service according
> >>>>>> to that 1952 ERA type dissertation on the PRCo Interurbans as
> >>>>>> well as the Ira Swett article on Charleroi -- but they weren't
> >>>>>> specific about the tests and whether or not the PCCs were run
> >>>>>> beyond Library -- we know that they were used as trippers this
> >>>>>> far and even the PTM calendar shows an 1100 used for Fair Grounds
> >>>>>> tripper about 1949 or 1950.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> With 1613 and 1614 converted for interurban Test service within
> >>>>>> 6-months of delivery (at least for 1613) PRCo was *probably*
> >>>>>> considering PCCs for interurban service even as the 1601s were
> >>>>>> ordered. Guess we shall never know For Sure without something
> >>>>>> turning up in the archives.
> >>>>>
>
>
>
>Jim__Holland
>
>
>I__Like__Ike.......And__PCCs!!
>
>down with pantographs ---- UP___WITH___TROLLEYPOLES!!!!!!!
>
>