[PRCo] Re: "Johnstown" trolley at Kenosha

[Fred Schneider]

What?  You like shell holes in your PCCs?

Boris Cefer wrote:

> Or Sarajevo :-D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ken & Tracie" <ktjosephson at earthlink.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:26 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: "Johnstown" trolley at Kenosha
>
> > Was TCRT one of the cars that came to SHRT from Newark? Or was it one of
> the
> > cars which went directly from TCRT to SHRT?
> >
> > I read that the Cleveland PCC at IRM needed extensive steel replacement.
> > Again, I'll cc this to Scott Greig to try to get a confirmation about
> this.
> >
> > I would guess that the best place to find a solid American PCC body would
> be
> > El Paso.... :-)
> >
> > K.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fred Schneider" <fschnei at supernet.com>
> > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 1:14 PM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: "Johnstown" trolley at Kenosha
> >
> >
> > > Tell me Herb ...
> > >
> > > What is the condition of the car?  I saw some of those cars on Shaker
> and
> > > they looked pretty damn ratty about 1980 or 1981.  I suspect the body
> > > steel was pretty rusty under the paint.  I also remember visiting
> Toronto
> > > in the winter of 1969 and noting that about 2 cars out of 3 were covered
> > > in white salt spray ... TTC simply could not wash them fast enough.  And
> > > the
> > > washing only got the surface salt ... it missed what was thrown up on
> the
> > > underside of the car and what was deposited in step wells and on the
> > > floors.
> > >
> > > After having seen what BSM / MTA had to do to the Baltimore 7407, what
> was
> > > done to Pittsburgh 1138 and 1723 and Philly 2723 and what the lads in
> > > Brookville did to the Philly cars and finally the "moth eaten" steel on
> > > one of the Newark / Twin City cars that is being patched together for
> > > Muni, I suspect there was a whole lot of hidden body cancer on those
> > > Cleveland
> > > cars.   I would expect the body post caps and the ends of the carlines
> are
> > > probably pretty badly rusted, and that the lower ends of the body posts
> > > might be almost non-existent.  When the Baltimore museum car was torn
> > > apart, only one body post on the entire left side was not rusted off at
> > > the bottom.
> > >
> > > If you look at Minnesota Transportation Museum's web site, you will get
> > > some idea what the TCRT 322 looked like under the skin when it arrived
> > > from Shaker Heights.
> > >
> > > Of course none of this is criticism of the PCC.  Its design life was 20
> > > years and I'm talking about the condition of cars that are more than 50
> > > years out of the box.
> > >
> > > Fred III
> > >
> > > hrbran99 at adelphia.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> Cleveland Transit System PCC Car 4223:
> > >>
> > >> Delivered to CTS between June and August, 1946, operated out of
> Brooklyn
> > >> Station on West 25th Street lines. Ended Cleveland service April 27,
> > >> 1953. Shipped to TTC later in 1953. Returned to Cleveland August 15,
> 1978
> > >> for Shaker Rapid service. Was TTC 4648. Was first (lead) car on
> "Welcome
> > >> Home" run signifying its return to Cleveland rail service. Sold to IRM
> > >> 1982.
> > >> HerB
> > >>
> > >> ---- Ken & Tracie <ktjosephson at earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >> . IRM also has an ex-Cleveland PCC
> > >> > (a Pullman, Cleveland Transit System 4223.) I do not know if the
> > >> > ex-Cleveland car came directly from the TTC or if it was one of the
> > >> > cars
> > >> > sent to Shaker Heights from Toronto. I seem to remember reading in
> > >> > "Rail and
> > >> > Wire" that 4223 was receiving extensive sheet metal replacement.
> > >> >
> > >> > > K.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> > From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> > >> > To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > >> > Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:28 PM
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > Is Illinois Ry Museum rebuilding an ex. Cleveland PCC car from CTS
> > >> > > via
> > >> > > TTC,
> > >> > > Shaker?  Or do I have this mixed up with an ex. Kansas City car???
> > >> > >
> > >> > > John
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >