[PRCo] Re: Braking Systems

[Fred Schneider]

In recent years, Jerry,

the only differences I know off in Pittsburgh were selected 1600  
series General Electric cars at Keating Car House were set up with  
higher air-brake pressure.    I think the company also normally tried  
to keep all-electric cars 1600, 1700-1799 off the steepest routes but  
I organized a charter with 1707 over 21 FINEVIEW.   And I remember  
seeing 1600 (a one-of-a-kind all-electric) running 85 BEDFORD one day  
in 1953.   Bedford had one hell of a hill outbound, close to 10 percent.

I have no idea if the 1200s were restricted in any way ... perhaps  
John Swindler or Jim Holland remembers.   They had a unique air drum  
brake system that I've been told was disliked by motormen.

West Penn went to track brakes because of problems with runaways in  
Connellsville.  However, the freight motors had HL control (which  
required air to function) and air brakes and they ran them over the  
same streets until 1941.

As a side bar:   For those who question my statement about  
Westinghouse HL control requiring air to operate because of their  
experience with the Pittsburgh multiple-unit cars, please allow me to  
explain.   Power to the motors on a car can be controlled through a  
platform controller, in which the 600 volt circuits are switched in a  
box under the motorman's hand.    Or they can be remotely switched by  
apparatus under the car, and the motorman's controller is no more  
than a low-voltage controller that tells the high voltage equipment  
what to do.   We are now talking about these remote schemes, all of  
which started out as a means of controlling several cars from a  
controller in the first car (multiple-unit control).   The generic  
Westinghouse scheme was to use compressed air to actuate the 600 volt  
contactors.   This began with the initial designs in 1899 for the  
Brooklyn Bridge Railway to compete with Sprague's Chicago equipment.   
The earliest Westinghouse MU designs used a drum controller, like an  
every day K controller, driven by compressed air with all sorts of  
air cylinders and paws and ratchets ... a real Rube Goldberg  
plumber's nightmare.   [If you want to see one, look at BQT 999 at  
Branford]   Westinghouse progressed in a couple of years to what they  
called a Unit Switch control, with air switches around a drum  
(Brooklyn again, ca. 1900), and later air-switches lined up in a row  
in a case.    HL stood only for Hand notching and Line voltage  
control through a dropping resistor to get a lower voltage.   (A  
stood for automatic, B for battery).    General Electric typically  
used magnetic solenoid switches.   Pittsburgh Railways, for the  
3750s, 5000s, 5100s, and 5200s went to Westinghouse and specified HL  
control with magnetic solenoid switches, i.e. a knock off of General  
Electric type M control.

On Oct 19, 2005, at 8:25 AM, <mtoytrain at bellsouth.net> wrote:

> It may sound "dumb: but with the different "HILL Routes" in  
> Pittsburgh, were certain cars equipped with different braking s  
> ystems to cover the steep grades,    Also  were there reported
> stories of  a trolley losing its brakes?
>
> Jerry Matsick
>
>
>>
>> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>> Date: 2005/10/19 Wed AM 08:17:56 EDT
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Apology
>>
>>
>>
>> Falls into the category, Fred, that we are both 'preaching to the  
>> choir'.
>> <g>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Apology
>>> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 16:46:30 -0400
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what you were saying John, other than they are older.
>>> My comment would be that two motor, K-control cars are 1) easier on
>>> the power bill, 2) easier for neophyte mechanics to understand, and
>>> 3) much easier to service because most of the routine oiling points
>>> and service points are easily reached.   The only cars I can  
>>> think of
>>> that would be easier to keep running would be hand-brake cars.
>>> Lamentably, most museums shun them because they have only one in a
>>> field of air brake cars (such as Branford's former Wildwood NJ open
>>> car) in a field of air-brake cars and most operators really don't
>>> understand them.   I remember a comment from an Arden trained man
>>> when he first ran a hand brake car in Baltimore, "This is the
>>> original self-lapping brake valve."
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2005, at 1:10 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Fred Schneider commented:
>>>>>
>>>>> You want a cool car in the summer?   Try the New Orleans or Philly
>>>>> cars ... windows open completely at both ends making them wind
>>>>> tunnels.   You won't find anything better until a museum tries to
>>>>> maintain an all-electronic, air-conditioned ex Philly Kawasaki  
>>>>> car.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless the heat dampers are working properly, an air-PCC will  
>>>>> not be
>>>>> cool in the summer.   They have to properly close off the body  
>>>>> from
>>>>> the resistors and allow all the heat to be blown outside.  If you
>>>>> want to run PCCs in museums, you need a good mechanical staff.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And the New Orleans and Philly cars (at PTM) are two-motor steel
>>>> cars with
>>>> K-type controllers.
>>>>
>>>> With an apology for being biased.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2005, at 12:44 AM, Mark McGuire wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>   I wish it were ready for service. It would be nice to have a
>>>>>> pre-war
>>>>>> Pittsburgh PCC in service at PTM, especially during the heat of
>>>>>> summer.  I'll settle for a double-end low floor car though. ;>)
>>>>>> Can't wait to see the finished product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>> An open apology to Boris:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Boris:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You asked when the trolley pole was on 1138 and I quipped  
>>>>>> "sometime
>>>>>> in 1937."   I didn't recall that anything had been done to get  
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> car ready for service.   And for the most part, it is still  
>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>> in service bay of the new "Trolley Display Building" in the same
>>>>>> condition that it was in when it came back from Elmira.   But the
>>>>>> pole is on it.   I asked the guy who put it back on and he  
>>>>>> does not
>>>>>> remember when he put it back on.   "Sometime in the winter of
>>>>>> 2001-2002 or maybe 2002-2003."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the car is no way ready for service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> fws
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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