[PRCo] Re: PAT trolley routes

[mtoytrain at bellsouth.net]

   Fred
   I think in Dallas they opened a line that had been paved over, saw it when I traveled on business
   to Big D.   Forgot the name of the street,    Tampa, did they restore an old line or put a new line in?
   I agree at one time we had 3 vehicles for 2 people!   American lifestyle demands individual 
   transportation.
> 
   Fred enjoy your writing immensely and your facts are super

   jerry

 
> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> Date: 2005/10/23 Sun PM 07:00:38 EDT
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PAT trolley routes
> 
> I'm not going to say get real.   I can think of a case in St. Louis  
> in the early 1960s where asphalt was temporarily scraped off rails.    
> But I'm going to ask you to look at the numbers, look at what is  
> happening in the rest of the world, look at what is unique in the  
> American mind (we love our cars),  and draw your own conclusions.
> 
> Picture this scenario, Jerry:
> 
>                      The Europeans have been living with high fuel  
> costs for a lot longer than we have and it has failed to discourage  
> them from driving automobiles.  Nor has it discouraged them from  
> owning as many automobiles as we do.   It has only discouraged them  
> from driving as many kilometers as we do and from owning monstrous  
> SUVs like we do.  Their annual auto mileage is probably around 7000  
> miles a year compared to around 15,000 in this country.
> 
> Ownership of cars:
> Japan  0.394 car per 1 person
> France 0.463 car per 1 person
> Germany 0.511 car per 1 person (Note this is higher than the U. S.  
> and gasoline is much more expensive)
> Sweden 0.436 car per 1 person
> United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, etc.) .372
> Canada 0.444
> Mexico 0.243 (1990 data)
> United States 0.481 car per person.
> 
> You might also note that this is crude data it that it is cars per  
> people and not cars per persons of the age where they could hold  
> licenses.   These were also the numbers I could quickly find.    They  
> came from a US DOT file.   I think I remember that Switzerland also  
> had more cars per capita than the U. S. and they also have, in my  
> mind, the best public transport system on the European continent.
> Point is that in the United States, France and Germany, the numbers  
> round to a car for every two people.
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> Before I start out on these next theme, I acknowledge that there are  
> some exceptions.  San Francisco and New York are so congested that  
> they have become forced U. S. exceptions to what follows.   Portland,  
> Oregon is an exception which I admit I do not fully understand.   It  
> seems to have managed to keep its downtown and accepted trolleys.    
> Yet only a few hours away, Seattle seems to want to fight to the  
> death to keep automobiles.    With the preamble established... Now  
> think about the mind set in different countries.  We talk about doing  
> all sorts of things in this country because they work in other  
> countries and then we find out they just don't work here.
> 
> The Europeans freely accept banning traffic from downtown streets.  I  
> can't think of one western European country where it hasn't been done  
> and has been overwhelmingly accepted by the populace.   (The east  
> still needs to find out how disastrous the auto can be.)  Now can you  
> imagine an American being told he has to park his car somewhere else  
> and walk down the street?  Get real.  Can you imagine an American  
> city with a scheme like Amsterdam where you cannot drive through the  
> city ... if you want to drive from one quarter to another, you need  
> to go outside, around, and back in simply because autos are an  
> infidel?    Can you imagine an American city with a $10 a day tax if  
> you want to bring your car into it ?   London has such a tax and not  
> without the BMW owners squealing that they "can't afford it."   But  
> somehow the world goes on.    I cannot think of a single German city  
> where automobiles are not banned from the central core.   That's  
> where people walk.   Not where cars run over people.  The most  
> affluent shopping street in Zurich, Switzerland is open to  
> pedestrians and public transport vehicles.
> 
>   I can think of several examples in the U. S. where it was tried.   
> Downtown Buloxi, MS ... they tried to turn the old downtown into a  
> downtown mall with a covered street and parking behind every store.   
> All that did was drive everyone to the brand new mall at Gulfport.    
> And another good example was East Liberty.   So just because it  
> worked somewhere else, don't expect an American to get out of his  
> automobile.   He or she will go to Europe, think about how wonderful  
> the concept is, then come home and reject it because it means getting  
> out of the car.   (I gave up looking for international weight charts  
> after 15 minutes ... the 50th percentile for men in the U. S. is 180  
> lbs but I can't find other countries.   But my opinion is we are much  
> heavier simply because I've heavy but I can find my sizes in stores  
> in the U. S. but not in Europe.)  So we drive to the spa to work out.
> 
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> 
> There was a piece on "All Things Considered," the late afternoon  
> Public Radio news show last week that looked at increased transit  
> riding because of higher gas prices in several U. S. cities.  I think  
> Houston might have been one of the cities.   Another was much  
> smaller.   The conclusion reached was simple.   Paraphrased, "As soon  
> as the public perceives the cost of gasoline is again affordable,  
> they will be back in their cars."   And guess what, Jerry.   That is  
> the same thing that happened in several previous fuel cost surges.
> 
> 
> 
> On Oct 23, 2005, at 4:38 PM, <mtoytrain at bellsouth.net>  
> <mtoytrain at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> >    Picture this scenario, fuel prices continue to rise higher and  
> > higher and the average guy can't
> >    afford gasoline at 4 or 5 buicks a gallong,  bus fares equally  
> > too high, what is the possiblity of
> >    PAT opening up former trolley lines?    Have all the rails been  
> > picked up?   any just paved over
> >    I know you all are saying Matsick get real that won't happen!    
> > Never say never, just curious what
> >    has happened to the various routes if the track is still there?
> >
> >    Jerry Matsick
> >
> >
> >>
> >> From: "James B. Holland" <PRCoPCC at P-R-Co.com>
> >> Date: 2005/10/23 Sun PM 04:30:00 EDT
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Homewood + early PCC days
> >>
> >> Boris Cefer wrote:
> >> .
> >>
> >>
> >>> OK.
> >>>
> >>> I attached a picture, a draft of Homewood shops. The picture was  
> >>> drawn
> >>> by a guy from Czechoslovakia who visited Pittsburgh (and also other
> >>> PCC operations) in 1949 to observe the PCC design, operation,
> >>> maintenance and other aspects. No, you did not have commies  
> >>> spying on
> >>> Pittsburgh. Nor Nazis as Jim indicated after my statement regarding
> >>> previous visit of a Czechoslovakian guy to Pittsburgh in the early
> >>> 1939. The guy then made a long report (I have it) on everything
> >>> relative the PCC technology (various details of Westinghouse and GE
> >>> development and improvements) and streetcar operation in Pgh and
> >>> several other US cities. His conclusion was that as early as in 1939
> >>> the Westinghouse equipped cars were more popular than GEs.    I hope
> >>> it is clear.
> >>>
> >>> B
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> Loud  And  Clear!
> >>
> >> The  World   K-n-o-w-s   That  Europe  Chooses  Nothing  But  The
> >> Best    ----    WEstinghouse!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Jim__Holland
> >>
> >>
> >> I__Like__Ike.......And__PCCs!!
> >>
> >> down with pantographs ---- UP___WITH___TROLLEYPOLES!!!!!!!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
>