[PRCo] Re: Russian___PCCs

[John Swindler]

At the risk of trying to trust my memory, Fred:

Concerning the Monongahela Valley Republician newspaper - or perhaps it was 
a Washington County history (senior moment??):

Ever hear of Monongahela County in Pennsylvania??  Probably not.  But it was 
proposed in 1880s-1890s because of difficulty getting to Washington to 
conduct business.  It would be carved out of Washington, Fayette ---  and 
perhaps a bit of Allegheny and Westmoreland Counties.

So how do you get to Washington, Pa from say -- Donora if you don't own a 
horse???  Easy:  take the packet boat to Pittsburgh (two trips per day),  
then Pittsburgh Southern from Temperanceville - and later the Chartiers 
Valley Railroad to Washington.  It was a two day round-trip.  A long two 
days.

The Charleroi interurban and steam railroad service along the Monongahela 
River were a vast improvement over the packet boats.  Made it possible to 
get to Washington and return in one very long day.  The Washington 
interurban was also a later improvement - made it a day-trip by transfering 
at Washington Jct, and eliminating the need to go through Pittsburgh.

But by then, along came Henry Ford, and it became possible to drive to 
Washington and return in one morning.  And by then, talk of erecting 
Monongahela County vanished.

The lesson is that Americans were becoming so wealthy that the average 
person could afford convenience.  That trend is continuing and spreading 
around the globe.

John



>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Russian___PCCs
>Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:36:30 -0400
>
>Oh, it was built as one of Pennsylvania's suicide highways, was it?
>A middle lane for playing chicken!    I had forgotten that even
>though I drove that road in the 1940s.
>
>   Boris needs to understand that modern highway engineering in the
>1930s called for a central passing lane that everyone could use in
>both directions.   Motorists were presumed to be intelligent until it
>was discovered that there was a chilling tendency for two of them to
>try to pass in opposing directions all too often.     As time passed,
>the middle lanes became either left turn only lanes or were
>restricted to passing in one direction only.   And often, as traffic
>became even heavier, a solid yellow line often was painted down the
>middle of the center lane to prevent the impatient drivers from
>passing (the Federal government refers to it as a "traffic calming"
>method).
>
>The chronology (and my friend Ed will tell me if I'm incorrect and
>with my appreciation) was a two-lane asphalt, crowned road from
>Pittsburgh to Washington via the West End, Carnegie, Bridgeville,
>Morganza, Canonsburg, Houston, and Meadowlands.   This was the
>original numbered US route 19.   My father remembers using that road
>to get to Pittsburgh in the early 1930s to "court" my mother.  It was
>probably paved sometime in the early to middle 1920s.   There was
>also, until 1940, the Washington cinder road, that roughly paralleled
>the present US 19, and actually passes Ed's property.  (I'd like to
>hear Ed's commentary on how often the cinder road was dressed with
>fresh cinders and regraded.)   Note there was no paved road near the
>trolley line through much of the area of far northern Washington
>County and far southern Allegheny County before 1940.   Pittsburgh
>Railways had the territory to itself, but, with no roads, there were
>few homes ... a farm here and there.   The population then was over
>along old route 19 and the even earlier Pennsylvania Railroad.
>
>Then in 1940 the three lane (as EHL corrected me) concrete highway
>was built from Washington to Mount Lebanon, replacing the Washington
>cinder road.   Now there are five lanes from Washington to Pittsburgh
>(if you want to consider North Main St. as an option).  This
>relegated the old Pittsburgh Pike - Morganza Road - Washington Pike
>route (the old US 19) to virtual obscurity as a local road.  (Obscure
>unless you have to fight traffic on it.)   I think it might have been
>in the 1950s that US 19 became five lanes.  Ed knows.   I believe
>this also allowed Blue Ridge buses (part of the West Penn Electric
>empire) to directly compete with the trolleys.
>
>Then, in the early 1960s, Interstate 79 was built, four lanes wide
>(and six lanes north of Bridgeville) in the same corridor as the
>original US 19.  In the same corridor means within one mile, and
>often no more than 1/2 mile.
>
>So now, where we had 2 lanes of roadway in 1930, a commuter railroad
>(the Pennsy ran passenger trains until 1952) and an interurban until
>1953, we now have 11 to 13 highway lanes of traffic.
>
>And please do not ask Mrs. Janis Lybarger if the road capacity is
>adequate.   They've been working on I-79 and ruining her commute to
>Ambridge lately.   But before anyone tells me just how wonderful
>trains were, lets go back and look at the 1930 Official Guide.
>Leave Morganza at 6:20 AM on the first morning northbound train
>arrive Pittsburgh 7:19, Leave Pittsburgh 8:05 and arrive Ambridge
>8:40 and get balled out for being late for work.   Leave Ambridge at
>5:20 PM get into Pittsburgh at 5:55 just in time to miss a train to
>Washington, and wait for the next one at 7:59 which gets you into
>Morganza at 8:51.   And then there is the trolley ride from Morganza
>to home or the two mile walk.   The drive home sucks but the train
>would have been worse.     In those days your employment sphere was a
>lot smaller geographic circle!
>
>John Swindler should explain to us some of his early research from
>the Monongahela area papers about travel in the county.   The Mon
>Valley towns were virtually isolated from the Washington County seat
>for many years, and if you had business in Washington (for example,
>if you were called to jury duty in Washington, Pa.)  and lived in
>Charleroi or Monongahela before the trolley ... WELL JOHN, YOU
>EXPLAIN HOW THEY GOT THERE.    IT'S A CHARMING STORY.
>
>On Oct 25, 2005, at 7:47 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>
> > It was actually three lanes in 1940.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of
> > Fred
> > Schneider
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:51 PM
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Russian___PCCs
> >
> >
> > And the new highway gradually evolved from two bright white concrete
> > lanes in 1940 to five lanes today while the interurban disappeared.
> > Public choice.
> >
> > On Oct 25, 2005, at 2:54 PM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> >
> >
>