[PRCo] Re: Experimental B3 trucks

Thu Apr 6 06:22:48 EDT 2006

Very First Two  (2)  sets of Experimental B3 trucks were::

                ordered  1939.10.25  and

                shipped //  installed
                                1940.11.15  and
                                1941.03.10  --

This from pg.186 of An American Original_--_The PCC Car by Kashin,  
SLCCo Truck Job#6192,

AND  Also pg.368 of Horsecars to Streamliners__--__History SLCCo. by 
Lind    ----

Both  List  The  Exact  Same  Dates.

HowSomeEver    ----    the  <Note>  in Lind's book to the Truck Job# for 
these Two Experimentals confirms fws3 comments below, and I quote:   
"""Another report states the trucks were shipped in 1944."""        
(Finding this info in Lind's book is a major undertaking  --  the ten B3 
truck Sets for the 1601s converted  to Interurbans  (Job#6305)  are 
listed ahead of the 4 sample B3s for the 12s  --  then try to find the 
Notes  --  several pages before or aft!!!       Lind states on pg.308 
that  SLCCo     """does not seem to have compiled its truck orders as 
methodically as the car job list.       Many numbers are missing from 
the sequence of truck jobs..""")

Neither of these books lists the ordering // shipping information for 
the Experimental B3s underneath 1613 and 1614  --  at least I haven't 
found it In Lind as yet  --  and not looking that hard at 3-AM!

Notes  3_&_4  of pg.2 foldout  PCC Cars Of World from back of PCC Car 
That Fought Back read as follows::

"""Note 3--Car 1230 equipped with various experimental B-3 trucks  (SLC 
6192)  from 1940-41 to 1946."""

"""Note 4--Car 1278 equipped with various experimental B-3 trucks  (SLC 
6192)  from 1940-41 to 1946."""

Info still stands that there were 4-sets of Experimental Trucks  And  
At  Least  3-Styles.

Car_1230 delivered to PRCo 1940.04.20 and placed into service on the 23rd.

Car_1278 delivered to PRCo 1940.07.11 and placed into service on the 13th.

Boris Cefer wrote:
.

> You can fwd this to the list, if you wish.
>  
> My feeling is that SLCCo built the truck with superresilient wheels 
> first.       It had all-rubber springs which were easy to obtain in 
> 1940.       The second truck was built later and as a result of war, 
> it had much fewer rubber parts and steel coil springs were used.       
> These two different pairs could not be built at the same time - the 
> style of photos is not identical.
>  
> I don't know when the first pair of trucks was modified with 
> steel-rubber combination springs, but it was probably after the second 
> pair was built.       The xerox copy  (the steel-rubber comb. truck)  
> is bad, but it looks that the motors are no longer suspended from the 
> upper frame.       But it sounds logical if the independent motor 
> suspension on the second prototypes was found more satisfactory than 
> the original design (similar to B-1).
>  
> B

Fred Schneider wrote:
.

>Whoa d'a Saphire.   That assignment list is 1941.   The special trucks are about 1944.   Nothing ever remained carved in stone for three years.
>
>James B. Holland wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Interesting to note that according to the assignments of 1200s upon delivery that fws3 sent, both 1225 and 1230 were then assigned to Homewood and 1278 was assigned to Keating!       The fact that they had the experimental, however, could mean they were given special assignments and not at all used by these barns.        From all the information listed below, the WH trucks were the first set with the wheel tread brake shoes and the GE trucks had the drums  --  and also standard resilient wheels according to the photo top left.pg.133.
>>Quoting from photo caption on pg.132 PCC Car Fought Back  --   """Note the spring-applied, air-released tread brakes, used only on Pittsburgh's 1200s and the New York  'Bluebird'  trains, which replaced a separate parking brake."""
>>
>>From the photo captions here,  <apparently>  the main difference between the First Two Sets of Experimental B3s  (for 1230 and 1278 and whatever 12 had them after being shopped)  is that the first set had the motors suspended from the upper framing which also held the bolster and sat on the spring pots.       The second set also had a double spring pot But the motors were supported on separate transoms.       The photo shows super resilient wheels.       The top left photo on pg.133 indicates that Before The Second Prototype  (with separate motor transoms but still 2 spring pots)  was delivered it had drum brakes installed instead of wheel tread brake shoes.
>>
>>Continuing on pg.133 the caption for the Upper right photo says:     """The third And Final prototype was almost identical to the production B3 trucks.       The principal exception was the carriage of the motor transoms on steel instead of rubber springs.       BELOW:       These  <Two Pairs>  went on PRCo's 1613 and 1614......."""
>>
>>
>>May we deduce the following???????
>>
>>
>>Three  (3)  Prototypes:::::::
>>
>>            +++   Double Spring Pot Each Side
>>                        Upper Frame Carries
>>                        Bolster & Motor support
>>                        Wheel Tread Brake Shoes
>>                        One  (1)  Set Under 1200s
>>
>>            +++   Double Spring Pot Each Side
>>                        Separate Motor Mount
>>                        Drum Brakes
>>                        One  (1)  Set Under 1200s
>>
>>            +++   B3 Nearly Identical to
>>                        Final Prototype.
>>                        Two  (2)  Sets, One Each Under
>>                        1613 and 1614.
>>
>>Four Sets of Experimental B3 Trucks
>>            Please See Above.
>>
>>
>>Because 1225 has wheel tread brake shoes  http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/jfp073.htm  may we deduce that this set is The Very First Set of Experimental B3 trucks?
>>
>>And  <<a>  possible reason>  for 1225 not being listed in the literature as sporting the experimental B3 trucks could be as I described below
>>
>>The books mention 1230 and 1278    ----    because equipment was in short supply during WW2 if the experimentals were pulled from the car For Any Reason they probably just pushed another set of regular trucks under the car and sent it right back out  -- thus we have 1225 with experimentals as it had its trucks removed when the experimentals were ready to go back out.
>>
>>Believe there were only 4-sets  --  two sets with double spring pots each side under the 1200s and 2-set with single spring pot that went under 1613 and 1614.       Or maybe one of the twelves also had a set with only one spring pot.
>>
>>
>>
>>Boris Cefer wrote:
>>
>>http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/B-3%20test.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>Jim__Holland
>>
>>
>>I__Like__Ike.......And__PCCs!!
>>
>>down with pantographs ---- UP___WITH___TROLLEYPOLES!!!!!!!
>>