[PRCo] Re: Experimental B3 trucks

Thu Apr 6 17:44:15 EDT 2006

Does seem like a Very Long Time for the trucks to be under 
development.       <Maybe>  this B3 development is what gave  PRCo  the 
idea for interurban service with PCCs  --  Or Helped It Along!

Most PRCo PCCs saw 2 or 3 day turn around time  --  a few saw much more 
for some strange reason.       Needs to be pulled from the flat car  --  
that was probably accomplished quite fast or PRCo would be charged extra 
for the flat car sitting there!       But then the car needs to be made 
road worthy at Millvale  --  trolley pole tension is at a minimum for 
shipment so that needs to be brought up to standard - other such things 
would need to be done.       Then someone has to take it to Homewood for 
a checkup and then someone needs to take it to the operating barn!       
PRCo system much more spread out than many other systems which ordered PCCs.

Fred Schneider wrote:
.

>OK.   Mea Culpa.   You win.   I didn't realize the experiment went back that far.
>
>It never ceases to amaze me that car builders back then could deliver a car that worked.   Take it off the flatcar, install a far box and the advertising cards, and put it on the street in the evening rush hour.       I wonder why PRC took two days to get a car on the street considering some companies did it in a few hours, unless the delivery date was 11 PM one day and it was placed in service at 6 AM the second day.
>
>
>
>James B. Holland wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Very First Two  (2)  sets of Experimental B3 trucks were::
>>
>>                ordered  1939.10.25  and
>>
>>                shipped //  installed
>>                                1940.11.15  and
>>                                1941.03.10  --
>>
>>
>>This from pg.186 of An American Original_--_The PCC Car by Kashin, SLCCo Truck Job#6192,
>>
>>AND  Also pg.368 of Horsecars to Streamliners__--__History SLCCo. by Lind    ----
>>
>>
>>Both  List  The  Exact  Same  Dates.
>>
>>
>>HowSomeEver    ----    the  <Note>  in Lind's book to the Truck  
>>Job# for
>>these Two Experimentals confirms fws3 comments below, and I quote:    """Another report states the trucks were shipped in 1944."""       (Finding this info in Lind's book is a major undertaking  --  the ten B3 truck Sets for the 1601s converted  to Interurbans  (Job#6305)  are listed ahead of the 4 sample B3s for the 12s  --  then try to find the Notes  --  several pages before or aft!!!       Lind states on pg.308 that  SLCCo     """does not seem to have compiled its truck orders as methodically as the car job list.       Many numbers are missing from the sequence of truck jobs..""")
>>
>>
>>Neither of these books lists the ordering // shipping information for the Experimental B3s underneath 1613 and 1614  --  at least I haven't found it In Lind as yet  --  and not looking that hard at 3-AM!
>>
>>
>>Notes  3_&_4  of pg.2 foldout  PCC Cars Of World from back of PCC Car That Fought Back read as follows::
>>
>>"""Note 3--Car 1230 equipped with various experimental B-3 trucks  (SLC#6192)  from 1940-41 to 1946."""
>>
>>"""Note 4--Car 1278 equipped with various experimental B-3 trucks   (SLC#6192)  from 1940-41 to 1946."""
>>
>>
>>Info still stands that there were 4-sets of Experimental Trucks  And At  Least  3-Styles.
>>
>>
>>Car_1230 delivered to PRCo 1940.04.20 and placed into service on the 23rd.
>>
>>Car_1278 delivered to PRCo 1940.07.11 and placed into service on the 13th.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Interesting to note that according to the assignments of 1200s  
>>>upon delivery that fws3 sent, both 1225 and 1230 were then  
>>>assigned to Homewood and 1278 was assigned to Keating!       The  
>>>fact that they had the experimental, however, could mean they  
>>>were given special assignments and not at all used by these  
>>>barns.        From all the information listed below, the WH  
>>>trucks were the first set with the wheel tread brake shoes and  
>>>the GE trucks had the drums  --  and also standard resilient  
>>>wheels according to the photo top left.pg.133.
>>>Quoting from photo caption on pg.132 PCC Car Fought Back  --    
>>>"""Note the spring-applied, air-released tread brakes, used only  
>>>on Pittsburgh's 1200s and the New York  'Bluebird'  trains, which  
>>>replaced a separate parking brake."""
>>>
>>>From the photo captions here,  <apparently>  the main difference between the First Two Sets of Experimental B3s  (for 1230 and  1278 and whatever 12 had them after being shopped)  is that the  first set had the motors suspended from the upper framing which  also held the bolster and sat on the spring pots.       The  second set also had a double spring pot But the motors were  supported on separate transoms.       The photo shows super  resilient wheels.       The top left photo on pg.133 indicates  that Before The Second Prototype  (with separate motor transoms  but still 2 spring pots)  was delivered it had drum brakes  installed instead of wheel tread brake shoes.
>>>
>>>Continuing on pg.133 the caption for the Upper right photo says:     """The third And Final prototype was almost identical  to the production B3 trucks.       The principal exception was  the carriage of the motor transoms on steel instead of rubber  springs.       BELOW:       These  <Two Pairs>  went on PRCo's 1613 and 1614......."""
>>>
>>>
>>>May we deduce the following???????
>>>
>>>
>>>Three  (3)  Prototypes:::::::
>>>
>>>           +++   Double Spring Pot Each Side
>>>                       Upper Frame Carries
>>>                       Bolster & Motor support
>>>                       Wheel Tread Brake Shoes
>>>                       One  (1)  Set Under 1200s
>>>
>>>           +++   Double Spring Pot Each Side
>>>                       Separate Motor Mount
>>>                       Drum Brakes
>>>                       One  (1)  Set Under 1200s
>>>
>>>           +++   B3 Nearly Identical to
>>>                       Final Prototype.
>>>                       Two  (2)  Sets, One Each Under
>>>                       1613 and 1614.
>>>
>>>Four Sets of Experimental B3 Trucks
>>>           Please See Above.
>>>
>>>
>>>Because 1225 has wheel tread brake shoes  http://206.103.49.193/pitts/htm/jfp073.htm  may we deduce that this set is The Very First Set of Experimental B3 trucks?
>>>And  <<a>  possible reason>  for 1225 not being listed in the  literature as sporting the experimental B3 trucks could be as I  described below
>>>
>>>The books mention 1230 and 1278    ----    because equipment was  in short supply during WW2 if the experimentals were pulled from  the car For Any Reason they probably just pushed another set of  regular trucks under the car and sent it right back out  -- thus  we have 1225 with experimentals as it had its trucks removed when  the experimentals were ready to go back out.
>>>
>>>Believe there were only 4-sets  --  two sets with double spring  pots each side under the 1200s and 2-set with single spring pot  that went under 1613 and 1614.       Or maybe one of the twelves  also had a set with only one spring pot.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Boris Cefer wrote:
>>>
>>>http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/B-3%20test.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Jim__Holland
>>>
>>>
>>>I__Like__Ike.......And__PCCs!!
>>>
>>>down with pantographs ---- UP___WITH___TROLLEYPOLES!!!!!!!
>>>