[PRCo] Re: Transit Taxation/Tom Johnson

Mon Dec 25 19:14:41 EST 2006

It's not a charter move.  It's a special service.  Therefore not open to 
competitive bid from private bus operators.

John

>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit Taxation/Tom Johnson
>Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:48:41 -0500
>
>I GUESS I'M BACK A FEW YEARS JOHN.   IT USED TO BE THAT THE FEDS
>WANTED CHARTER REVENUE TO COVER ALL COSTS.  I GUESS WE JUST DON'T
>CARE ANYMORE.
>
>On Dec 25, 2006, at 6:15 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>
> >
> > Tom Johnson was the mayor.  He didn't have to make a profit on a
> > three cent
> > fare.  All he had to do was tell the voters a sufficiently good
> > fairy tale
> > to insure his re-election.  "I'm fighting for cheap fares for you"
> > apparently worked at that time - in a lot of cities.   And the
> > times haven't
> > changed, just the story line, but probably best not to go there.
> >
> > As for Herb's special service run, as far as the RTA is concerned,
> > the bus
> > is a freebie.  There is no depreciation.  Federal/State/Local
> > grants from
> > taxpayers paid for the vehicles.  Today the profit motive is in
> > making the
> > local public officials look good.  There is no profit in trying to
> > deny
> > anyone their free lunch.  Just look at the song and dance occuring in
> > Pittsburgh and Philly over transit financing.  (just to bring theme
> > back to
> > Pittsburgh)
> >
> > Before I get into more trouble - John
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit Taxation/Tom Johnson
> >> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:22:15 -0500
> >>
> >> But we had one standard then, Herb.   You made money.   You made it
> >> off a 3 cent fare.   You made it hauling funerals.   You made it with
> >> any charter.
> >>
> >> Today there is a distinction.   You loose it with the regular fare
> >> paying rider but at least you try to make it on a charter.
> >> Hopefully, if you have a railfan charter, you charge enough to pay
> >> the fare, the special trip insurance, and the operator's wages.   So
> >> you should be collecting somewhere around $7.00 per passenger per
> >> hour.....
> >>
> >> On Dec 25, 2006, at 5:12 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>
> >>> (NOTE: Not really PRCo related--delete if necessary)
> >>>
> >>>   Yesterday (12/24) would have normally been a regular day off for
> >>> me. Off days this pick are Sun/Mon. However, I worked a "Football
> >>> Flyer" taking fans to see the Browns. The trip was from Brecksville
> >>> Park and Ride to Lakefront Stadium and return. I had 24 people
> >>> going and 20 returning. Had bus #1015, a 40' MCI interurban/over-
> >>> the-road type. The fare is $2.50 per person both going and again
> >>> returning. Thus, 44 x $2.50 = $110. This was my day off, therefore
> >>> I got time and a half and the piece of work paid eight (8) hours.
> >>> Thus 8 hours plus 4 hours (for the half-time) equals 12 hrs x 22.30
> >>> = $267.60. Also, don't forget the costs associated with moving the
> >>> bus (fuel, depreciation, etc.) from the garage to the route and
> >>> back to the garage again. If they had to depend on the farebox
> >>> these days there would be no transit service at all. Back in Tom
> >>> Johnson's day the farebox was all they relied upon. No transit tax
> >>> back then. Wages and operations costs must have been really low
> >>>  then. They ran many more vehicles then than now and usually used a
> >>> two-man crew per vehicle! Amazing!
> >>> Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>   You're telling me that taxation to pay for public transport was
> >>> alive
> >>> and well even then? I wonder what share of the the cost of the
> >>> ride came out of the fare box. Certainly a lot more in 1901 than
> >>> the 25% or so we consider normal today.
> >>>
> >>> For those who want to read about Tom Johnson (1901-1909), the first
> >>> URL is an Amazon.COM URL for a book on Johnson. The second URL is
> >>> wikipedia's writeup on Johnson and his various transit escapades
> >>> including the Johnson farebox.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Johnson-Times-Clevelands-Greatest/dp/
> >>> 0965987116
> >>>
> >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_L._Johnson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 25, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Here's to a happy, safe, and peaceful holiday season.
> >>>>
> >>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>> Cleveland, Ohio
> >>>>
> >>>> Attached photo is Cleveland Public Square with turn-of-the-
> >>>> century (19th to 20th) mayor Tom Johnson (ran as the "3-cent
> >>>> trolley fare" candidate" and won) basking in the glow of this years
> >>>> Christmas lights. Terminal Tower in background.
> >>>>
> >>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> >>>> -- Type: image/pjpeg
> >>>> -- Desc: 196581517-PublicSquare Christmas2006.jpg
> >>>> -- Size: 1699k (1739830 bytes)
> >>>> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
> >>>> PublicSquare%20Christmas2006.jpg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Herb Brannon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger.
> > http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0080000001msn/direct/01/?
> > href=http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/santabot/default.aspx?
> > locale=en-us
> >
> >
>
>

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