[PRCo] Re: Transit Taxation/Tom Johnson

Wed Dec 27 17:44:48 EST 2006

Public transit authorities have been prohibited from running 'charter' service since the Ronald Regan/Elizabeth Dole (President/Secy of Transportation) era. The only exceptions are when a private operator is not available or does not operate the type of vehicle (rail cars, trackless trolley buses, etc) the customer desires. 
Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:  Interesting concept.

On Dec 25, 2006, at 7:14 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
> It's not a charter move. It's a special service. Therefore not 
> open to
> competitive bid from private bus operators.
>
> John
>
>
>
>> From: Fred Schneider 
>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit Taxation/Tom Johnson
>> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 18:48:41 -0500
>>
>> I GUESS I'M BACK A FEW YEARS JOHN. IT USED TO BE THAT THE FEDS
>> WANTED CHARTER REVENUE TO COVER ALL COSTS. I GUESS WE JUST DON'T
>> CARE ANYMORE.
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2006, at 6:15 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Tom Johnson was the mayor. He didn't have to make a profit on a
>>> three cent
>>> fare. All he had to do was tell the voters a sufficiently good
>>> fairy tale
>>> to insure his re-election. "I'm fighting for cheap fares for you"
>>> apparently worked at that time - in a lot of cities. And the
>>> times haven't
>>> changed, just the story line, but probably best not to go there.
>>>
>>> As for Herb's special service run, as far as the RTA is concerned,
>>> the bus
>>> is a freebie. There is no depreciation. Federal/State/Local
>>> grants from
>>> taxpayers paid for the vehicles. Today the profit motive is in
>>> making the
>>> local public officials look good. There is no profit in trying to
>>> deny
>>> anyone their free lunch. Just look at the song and dance 
>>> occuring in
>>> Pittsburgh and Philly over transit financing. (just to bring theme
>>> back to
>>> Pittsburgh)
>>>
>>> Before I get into more trouble - John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Fred Schneider 
>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit Taxation/Tom Johnson
>>>> Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2006 17:22:15 -0500
>>>>
>>>> But we had one standard then, Herb. You made money. You made it
>>>> off a 3 cent fare. You made it hauling funerals. You made it 
>>>> with
>>>> any charter.
>>>>
>>>> Today there is a distinction. You loose it with the regular fare
>>>> paying rider but at least you try to make it on a charter.
>>>> Hopefully, if you have a railfan charter, you charge enough to pay
>>>> the fare, the special trip insurance, and the operator's 
>>>> wages. So
>>>> you should be collecting somewhere around $7.00 per passenger per
>>>> hour.....
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 25, 2006, at 5:12 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> (NOTE: Not really PRCo related--delete if necessary)
>>>>>
>>>>> Yesterday (12/24) would have normally been a regular day off for
>>>>> me. Off days this pick are Sun/Mon. However, I worked a "Football
>>>>> Flyer" taking fans to see the Browns. The trip was from 
>>>>> Brecksville
>>>>> Park and Ride to Lakefront Stadium and return. I had 24 people
>>>>> going and 20 returning. Had bus #1015, a 40' MCI interurban/over-
>>>>> the-road type. The fare is $2.50 per person both going and again
>>>>> returning. Thus, 44 x $2.50 = $110. This was my day off, therefore
>>>>> I got time and a half and the piece of work paid eight (8) hours.
>>>>> Thus 8 hours plus 4 hours (for the half-time) equals 12 hrs x 
>>>>> 22.30
>>>>> = $267.60. Also, don't forget the costs associated with moving the
>>>>> bus (fuel, depreciation, etc.) from the garage to the route and
>>>>> back to the garage again. If they had to depend on the farebox
>>>>> these days there would be no transit service at all. Back in Tom
>>>>> Johnson's day the farebox was all they relied upon. No transit tax
>>>>> back then. Wages and operations costs must have been really low
>>>>> then. They ran many more vehicles then than now and usually 
>>>>> used a
>>>>> two-man crew per vehicle! Amazing!
>>>>> Fred Schneider wrote:
>>>>> You're telling me that taxation to pay for public transport was
>>>>> alive
>>>>> and well even then? I wonder what share of the the cost of the
>>>>> ride came out of the fare box. Certainly a lot more in 1901 than
>>>>> the 25% or so we consider normal today.
>>>>>
>>>>> For those who want to read about Tom Johnson (1901-1909), the 
>>>>> first
>>>>> URL is an Amazon.COM URL for a book on Johnson. The second URL is
>>>>> wikipedia's writeup on Johnson and his various transit escapades
>>>>> including the Johnson farebox.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Johnson-Times-Clevelands-Greatest/dp/
>>>>> 0965987116
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_L._Johnson
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 25, 2006, at 11:16 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's to a happy, safe, and peaceful holiday season.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>> Cleveland, Ohio
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Attached photo is Cleveland Public Square with turn-of-the-
>>>>>> century (19th to 20th) mayor Tom Johnson (ran as the "3-cent
>>>>>> trolley fare" candidate" and won) basking in the glow of this 
>>>>>> years
>>>>>> Christmas lights. Terminal Tower in background.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
>>>>>> -- Type: image/pjpeg
>>>>>> -- Desc: 196581517-PublicSquare Christmas2006.jpg
>>>>>> -- Size: 1699k (1739830 bytes)
>>>>>> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
>>>>>> PublicSquare%20Christmas2006.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> Experience the magic of the holidays. Talk to Santa on Messenger.
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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Herb Brannon