[PRCo] Re: What a Minute...

[Fred Schneider]

And there were some that did a lot worse.   New York City had an even  
worse political climate than Pittsburgh, in which they were forced to  
adhere to a 5 cent fare until the private companies simply went broke  
and the city took them over.    Third Avenue Railway in New York got  
into a tussle with the city over its franchise in which TARS reminded  
the city that its trolley franchise was perpetual and the mayor of  
New York could not force them to shut down or convert to bus.   And  
the mayor responded that there was a bus subsidiary (Surface  
Transportation Company) which had short term franchises, and that if  
TARS didn't give up its trolley franchises, the mayor would cancel  
its bus franchises.    Eventually the city owned all the bus and  
subway lines and all the drivers, mechanics, and office help worked  
for the mayor, which I'm sure was the political plum hizhonor was  
after all along.

City government also forced private companies out of business very  
early in San Francisco, Cleveland, Chicago, Boston, Detroit and  
Seattle in the 1930s and 1940s.   Toronto Civic forced Toronto  
Railway out of business in the 1920s.   Miami and Coral Gables were  
municipal operations pretty much from the beginning.    In my mind,  
forcing them out of business is something that happened back when you  
still might have been able to make some money as a private company  
(1950 and earlier).   Public ownership in the 1960s was done because  
private companies simply didn't have enough revenue to survive.

The City of Dallas told the operator of all the lines on the south  
side of town that they were not allowed to run them because they were  
not a local company ... the city was demanding that only a local  
company run the trolleys.   It was Northern Texas Traction over in  
Fort Worth that owned the lines in the south side of Dallas.   That  
never really changed except that Dallas Railway and Terminal rented  
the routes for as long as there were trolley lines, first from NTT  
and later from its successor, Fort Worth Transit Company (NTT went  
out of business about 1933).

As I think about this, I'm not really sure who it is that did a whole  
lot better.      Washington DC may have been the only area that  
really expanded and then only because government types need to hold  
meetings to reinforce their decisions, and because they need to be in  
one place so the  lobbyists can wine and dine them.  That area has  
expanded by something like a half million people in the last 30  
years.     It still has a huge number of inner city jobs.   I think  
the potential was there for Los Angeles but only on certain  
routes ... most of the system collapsed like every other city.

On Jun 12, 2006, at 3:38 PM, Boris Cefer wrote:

> But there were transit companies in the US that did better.
>
> B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2006 8:53 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: What a Minute...
>
>
>> We simply need to understand that this was a private company,
>> separated by 1950 from the Philadelphia Company, totally dependent on
>> fares for revenue.   Furthermore they were operating in a political
>> climate that could, in its best sense, be described as adversarial.
>> If PRC did anything to make money, such as investing money in other
>> areas (gasoline stations on its property, for example), the city came
>> down on them like a ton of bricks because that might increase the
>> condemnation costs to the city.    There was nada that PRC could do
>> that was correct in the city's eyes.   And the Pittsburgh Post
>> Gazette didn't make life easy either; they habitually showed Charles
>> Palmer frowning.
>>
>> I'm afraid, Boris, that you you are attempting to compare what you
>> saw in your youth in Europe with Pittsburgh.   What was run as a
>> communist or socialist venture for the good of the party and the
>> needs of the public.   The other was operated to squeeze the last
>> ounces of money out of a system on behalf of the investors and
>> subject to state regulators.  The goals and operations are totally
>> different and cannot be compared.
>>
>> Under those conditions, it was a miracle that the cars ran at all.
>>
>> On Jun 12, 2006, at 12:37 PM, Boris Cefer wrote:
>>
>>> They also did not waste money on wiring cosmetic. They simply laid
>>> a fluff
>>> of wires.
>>>
>>> B
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 11:19 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: What a Minute...
>>>
>>>
>>>> They also repaired the cars; they simply did not waste money on  
>>>> body
>>>> cosmetics.   In general, PRC cars ran pretty well and suffered  
>>>> few in
>>>> service breakdowns.
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 11, 2006, at 2:41 PM, Boris Cefer wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They did, but did not repair the cars!
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have more?
>>>>>
>>>>> B
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Ken & Tracie" <ktjosephson at earthlink.net>
>>>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:35 PM
>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] What a Minute...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ...I thought somebody said they never repaired the tracks. ;-)
>>>>>> K.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>