[PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come

Thu Apr 12 08:23:06 EDT 2007

>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come
>Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 20:18:32 -0400
>
>Right on.   And maybe someday they'll they'll find the bucks to
>replace the contact wire that Amtrak announced was fixed when
>electric operation resumed east of Harrisburg last October.
>
>On Apr 11, 2007, at 8:15 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I still have an issue of Railway Age with map of PA on front with
> > line drawn
> > between Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.  The lead-in comment to
> > feature comment
> > was:  "are we serious about high speed rail?  You bet we are," said
> > Governor
> > Sheaffer.
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRR Federal St. Station & What Dreams May Come
> >> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 10:25:59 -0400
> >>
> >> We made the mistake of trying to copy what Europeans do without
> >> understanding that Americans are not Europeans and did not grow up
> >> with their mindset.   There were hundreds of little pieces of the
> >> puzzle which we didn't understand.
> >>
> >> For example, Americans socialize in their homes.   We have people
> >> over.   Germans would not think of that ... they would go out to a
> >> restaurant to socialize or go to a game or go to a park or go
> >> downtown with their friends on Saturday.
> >>
> >> We attempted to add the venue without understanding why the Europeans
> >> have that venue and why it works for them.
> >>
> >> It would be like trying to install a high speed 200 mile an hour
> >> train from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia without recognizing that we
> >> have no way to get people from home to the station on one end and
> >> from the station to destination on the other end.   The Europeans
> >> have transit on both ends that works.   So do the Japanese.
> >>
> >> Sometimes I wish we could force our politicians to sit down in a
> >> strange place and live there for a year before they try to import
> >> ideas....
> >>
> >> fws
> >>
> >> On Apr 11, 2007, at 10:10 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>
> >>> In reading the article on Northside I see they want to return it to
> >>> something of its original self. A very good idea, and one which I
> >>> hope is successful. It is indicated that if this plan is adopted,
> >>> Federal Street would be opened again. Also, and one of the best
> >>> parts of the plan, is the demolition of a part of Allegheny Center
> >>> Mall.
> >>>
> >>>   As a personal comment, before I get to my main point, I believe
> >>> both the rebuilding (meaning destruction) of Northside and East
> >>> Liberty were part of the Robert Moses (the "sacred cow" architect
> >>> who made parts of New York City into crime ridden shoebox-tenement
> >>> districts through his right-wing brand of urban renewal) plan which
> >>> he drew up for Pittsburgh way back 'in the day.'
> >>>
> >>>   However, here is another chance for an operating Pittsburgh
> >>> Railways trolley museum ! PATransit is (or was) extending the light
> >>> rail system over to Northside somewhere in the area of the
> >>> stadiums. Now, if the Northside area is returned to something of
> >>> its former self a nice connector from the end of the LRV line into
> >>> the Northside/Allegheny City center als McKinney Street Transit
> >>> Authority in Dallas would be excellent. Any comments?
> >>>
> >>>   For the list member who mentioned it in this thread, yes, the PCC
> >>> cars can be heard on the city streets of Pittsburgh again.
> >>> Bob Rathke <bobrathke at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>   I checked some old PRR timetables, and it appears that the
> >>> Federal St.
> >>> Station building (later the Studebaker dealership) was off the east-
> >>> west
> >>> schedules by 1950.
> >>> However, the Pittsburgh-Cleveland trains still stopped at the
> >>> Federal St.
> >>> platforms until 1955, and the Pittsburgh area commuter trains
> >>> stopped there
> >>> as late as 1964. (In 1951, the PRR operated six round trip trains a
> >>> day
> >>> between Pittsburgh and Cleveland.) Attached is a photo that I took
> >>> on the
> >>> Federal St. Station platform in June, 1957. The view is to the
> >>> east, and
> >>> the Federal Tire Co. store is visible on the east side of Federal
> >>> St. along
> >>> the north side of the tracks. At that time, acess to the
> >>> platforms was
> >>> through a staircase off Federal St. under the tracks.
> >>>
> >>> Like Amtrak service to major cities today, the PRR had major
> >>> "suburuban"
> >>> stops on its mainlines to Pittsburgh:
> >>> New York line trains stopped at East Liberty, St. Louis line trains
> >>> stopped
> >>> at Carnegie, and Chicago line trains stopped at Sewickley.
> >>>
> >>> Bob 4/10/07
> >>>
> >>> -----------------------------
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Bob Rathke"
> >>> To:
> >>>
> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:55 PM
> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Boggs & Buhl closed in 1958. In the 1940's and 50's they operated
> >>>> a train
> >>>> ride in the toy department at Christmas and Easter - an electric 1
> >>>> ft.
> >>>> guage
> >>>> B&O streamliner. I've often wondered what happened to that train
> >>>> after
> >>>> the
> >>>> store closed
> >>>>
> >>>> Federal St. was still stop on the PRR up to the time the commuter
> >>>> trains
> >>>> were discontinued in the Fall of 1964. I'm not sure when the
> >>>> Federal St.
> >>>> Station building cesased being a station, but I remember the auto
> >>>> dealer
> >>>> that took over the building - Reed Studebaker, I believe.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bob 4/10/07
> >>>>
> >>>> -----------------------------
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Fred Schneider"
> >>>> To:
> >>>
> >>>> Cc: "Dennis Lamont"
> >>>> Sent: Monday, April 09, 2007 10:33 PM
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> I guess we all have our memories of the Nor'side.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My Grandma Rebele lived off the 3400 block of Perrysville Avenue
> >>>>> so I
> >>>>> have my memories of the former City of Allegheny too. In fact, as
> >>>>> long as Grandma lived, the lower Nor'side in her mind was still
> >>>>> Allegheny. She never adopted the word Pittsburgh. But then she
> >>>>> was married to my Grandpa and moved from Pittsburgh to Allegheny
> >>>>> before it was annexed to the larger city.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My Great Grandpa Rebele, whom I never knew, lived at 1439 Sandusky
> >>>>> Street in a house that, surprisingly, still exists near Allegheny
> >>>>> General Hospital. I've had conversations with a waitress of German
> >>>>> ancestry, Jean Cerra, in Max's Allegheny Tavern who remembered
> >>>>> tales
> >>>>> about how her relatives were forced to lie about their ancestry in
> >>>>> order to enroll their son (her grandfather or father) into a
> >>>>> parochial school on the Northside. No German's were desired in
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> neighborhood at that time because it was for English people. The
> >>>>> Germans, like my Great Grandfather and hers, lived in the triangle
> >>>>> between the rivers after the War Between the States. Eventually
> >>>>> much of that part of the north shore the river and Troy Hill
> >>>>> became
> >>>>> German but not without protest.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My memories of the 1950s when I was running around the
> >>>>> Northside was
> >>>>> a of quasi-vibrant but declining area with a market at Ohio and
> >>>>> Federal Streets. Pittsburgh Railways still maintained an house on
> >>>>> Sandusky Streets north of East Ohio Street with the line /
> >>>>> inclines
> >>>>> department on the first floor (Charles Shauck was the
> >>>>> superindent in
> >>>>> my era) and the track engineering department was on the second
> >>>>> floor. Shauck dragged me around to some wonderful places to eat in
> >>>>> the market after, he claimed, I'd dumped all my money in company
> >>>>> fare
> >>>>> boxes.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Allegheny had its own department store. Boggs and Buhl survived
> >>>>> until 1957 I think. Ed Lybarger could fill you in on the details:
> >>>>> one of the original founders of the store was one of the
> >>>>> founders of
> >>>>> the Pittsburgh, Harmony, Butler and New Castle Railway as well as
> >>>>> one
> >>>>> of the land development schemes up north near Warrendale. I
> >>>>> remember the story that my uncle took his two daughters in to
> >>>>> outfit
> >>>>> them for school during the grand going out of business sale and
> >>>>> the
> >>>>> store forgot to send the bill.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Garden Theater degenerated in later years to an X-rated
> >>>>> venue on
> >>>>> North Avenue. That part of Allegheny became rather nondescript.
> >>>>> My grandmother and mother used to worry about me if I was waiting
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> an 8 car down at Federal Street and North Avenue.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can also recall when the Pennsylvania Railroad was tearing down
> >>>>> its
> >>>>> grand castle of a station on Federal Street ... also known as the
> >>>>> Fort Wayne Station. At one time the PRR station on the North Side
> >>>>> was a base for some trains starting there and heading west. It was
> >>>>> also a starting point for some trains that went east via the
> >>>>> Allegheny and Connemaugh River lines to Johnstown. I'm not sure
> >>>>> when the waiting room closed and it just became a non-agency stop
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> commuter trains ... probably even before World War II. I remember
> >>>>> it as a Studebaker dealer. Then in 1954 I took some 35mm negatives
> >>>>> of it being dismantled.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But I remember the Northside as a city ... blocks this way and
> >>>>> blocks
> >>>>> that way filled with buildings. The last time I drove through
> >>>>> there
> >>>>> a few months ago I was suddenly struck by a totally different
> >>>>> impression. It was one of how many blocks of buildings had been
> >>>>> bulldozed away in order to build the East Street Expressway, the
> >>>>> Crosstown Expressway and the I-279 Expressway. Perhaps 20 square
> >>>>> blocks of buildings vanished. And as the link Boris posted pointed
> >>>>> out, the heart and soul is gone thanks to the loop around the
> >>>>> middle
> >>>>> of it. Just restoring transit to the middle of Federal Street and
> >>>>> East Ohio Street won't change anything ... the market is gone.
> >>>>> Sears Roebuck is gone. The Carnegie Library is empty. The
> >>>>> shoppers are out at the mall off McKnight Road. A small number who
> >>>>> are captive may still be downtown because they have no
> >>>>> automobile to
> >>>>> take them to the mall.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But, if you drive out East Ohio Street, between East Commons (we
> >>>>> used
> >>>>> to call it Sandusky Street) and East Street) there are still a
> >>>>> couple
> >>>>> of blocks of stores reminiscent of old Pittsburgh including ...
> >>>>> get
> >>>>> this guys ... a camera store and an Isalys. I've added a link to a
> >>>>> google map showing that area today.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Federal+Street+at+North
> >>>>> +Ave.,
> >>>>> +Pittsburgh,
> >>>>> +PA&layer=&sll=32.442523,-87.032472&sspn=0.098367,0.148659&ie=UTF8
> >>>>> &z
> >>>>> =16&
> >>>>> ll=40.452123,-
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> 80.006669&spn=0.011087,0.018582&om=1On Mon, 9 Apr 2007, Boris
> >>>>>> Cefer
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> http://www.newcolonist.com/finding_allegheny.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's an exhibit in the Heinz Architecture Hall at the Carnegie
> >>>>>> Museum
> >>>>>> of Art which suggests other ways Allegheny might be revitalized.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> >>> -- Type: image/jpeg
> >>> -- Size: 49k (50646 bytes)
> >>> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/
> >>> PRR9812FedSt0657.jpg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Herb Brannon
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Download Messenger. Join the i’m Initiative. Help make a difference
> > today.
> > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_APR07
> >
> >
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. 
http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE