[PRCo] Re: Drake Loop

Sat Apr 14 12:12:49 EDT 2007

Ed
Thanks for your reply, now that you reminded me, I remember Mark M told me that, I guess I am
just getting old,   Hope to visit up your way this fall,  If I didn't have the grandkids in Florida I would
move just to be near PTM somewhere along the T in Bethel Park or Peters 
Creek.
Thanks
Jerry
> 
> From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <trams2 at comcast.net>
> Date: 2007/04/14 Sat AM 10:47:04 EST
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Drake Loop
> 
> A wye was constructed near Walther stop early in 1953 and placed in service
> April 20 for newly-scheduled short-turn cars.  Drake Loop was not complete
> when the outer portion of the line was abandoned, so all cars used the wye
> from August 30 to the afternoon of September 25, when the loop opened.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of
> mtoytrain at bellsouth.net
> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 11:14 AM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Drake Loop
> 
> 
> When the Drake Loop opened, was there an imediate closer of the line to
> Washington, or did they
> have a Drake Looop car and a Washington interurban car until the Washington
> operation ceased?
> 
> Always wanted to learn
> 
> Jerry M
> >
> > From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> > Date: 2007/04/14 Sat AM 09:43:13 EST
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> >
> > THIS IS INCREDIBLE!   A TROLLEY WEB SITE HAS SO CHANGED AND I FIND IT
> > SO INTERESTING!
> >
> > On Apr 14, 2007, at 8:39 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > They didn't build the pyramids.  That was a somewhat local job
> > > approx. 1500
> > > years earlier.  And rather amazing mobilization of labor and
> > > material - and
> > > civil engineering.
> > >
> > >> From: aprochek at aol.com
> > >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> > >> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 22:26:53 -0400
> > >>
> > >> sounds good to me.  I always thought it was because after building
> > >> the
> > >> pyramids and getting paid peanuts (literally) for it, they said
> > >> the hell
> > >> with this and found better lines of work.....
> > >>
> > >>  -Alex
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >> Sent: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 10:27 AM
> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> > >>
> > >> If your interest in our national culture and our people, be they
> > >> Spanish or German or Black or Presbyterian or Anglican or Muslim or
> > >> whatever is as intriguing and interesting to you as it is to me, then
> > >> the following might be worth reading.
> > >>
> > >> Rich replied directly to me and suggested I make the decision whether
> > >> or not to put this on line.  I found his answer interesting ... it's
> > >> totally unrelated to trolleys but it does relate to the settlement or
> > >> population of our cities and our history and I can make a case, I
> > >> guess, for posting it.   Remotely at least it talks about the people
> > >> who rode the trolleys.   His story about why he feels Jewish families
> > >> went into merchandising (community support mechanisms, a tradition of
> > >> finding the right unfilled niche, education above all else, and a
> > >> desire to own property because many came from countries where they
> > >> were forbidden to own land) makes interesting reading.   It also
> > >> reminds me of other groups ... Mormons, Chinese, Indians who have
> > >> also been very successful employing the same techniques.   Ambition
> > >> is an amazing thing ... those who have it succeed, those who don't
> > >> fail and some times groups of people seem to have adapted better than
> > >> other groups.   Bully for them.
> > >>
> > >> So pasted it is Rich's explanation:
> > >>
> > >> "in part because of a tradition of commerce and professions. In part
> > >> because many came to US from areas where they could not own land and
> > >> therefore farming/agriculture were not options. Also, many were in
> > >> marketable trades. My father's family were tailors, clothing
> > >> merchants, and engravers. The culture placed a high value on skills
> > >> and commerce. They came here and bought into "the dream". Unlike
> > >> Irish or Italian immigrants, they didn't get into factory or
> > >> construction work-not sure why-maybe because the Irish and Italians
> > >> already had those jobs. Anaexception was women like my grandmother
> > >> and her sisters who worked in the garment industry and its factories.
> > >> My grandmother's sister witnessed the Triangle Shirt Factory fire and
> > >> subsequently became a militant labor organizer.Further, Jewish
> > >> culture was very get ahead oriented-if not for us then for our
> > >> children. Doing whatever was necessary to be sure their kids could be
> > >> educated and succeed was critical, Most had been artisans in the
> > >> parts of Eastern Europe from which they came. I didn't distribute to
> > >> the entire list, thinking maybe this interested only us two, but you
> > >> may distribute.
> > >>
> > >> "Oh, and another reason. There was a very well developed network for
> > >> immigrant support in the Jewish Community with a strong ethos of
> > >> helping one another-connecting to investors, sources of loan,
> > >> business and word of mouth. the Jewish immigrant community cared for
> > >> itself. My grandmother, not a woman of great means, was still the
> > >> longtime treasurer of HIAS (Hebrew Immigrant Assistance Society ) in
> > >> Boston. It really provided a network for newcomers to get
> > >> established, including finding potential marriagable spouses and
> > >> financial assistance. Helping out one another, especially after
> > >> coming from areas with such habitual oppression, was second nature."
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Apr 12, 2007, at 11:01 PM, Fred Schneider wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> And so why ... and you can discuss personally if you want or
> > >>> leave it
> > >>> on list if you think the others are interested (we'll find out), do
> > >>> you feel that so many people of Jewish ancestry / heritage went into
> > >>> the mercantile business?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Apr 12, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Richard Allman wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Philadelphia had a mix of ethnicity in its department store
> > >>>> proprietors.
> > >>>> Gimbels, Frank and Sedar, Snellenbergs', Lit Brothers owned by
> > >>>> Jewish
> > >>>> families. John Wanamaker was a Presbyterian merchant and
> > >>>> philanthropist-very
> > >>>> interested in the Sunday School movement. He was also the
> > >>>> Postmaster General
> > >>>> in the administration of President Benjamin Harrison, another
> > >>>> Presbyterian.
> > >>>> Strawbridge and Clothier old Philadelphia Quaker families.My home
> > >>>> sits on a
> > >>>> small fragment of the old Clothier estate.Some were heroic
> > >>>> enterprises,
> > >>>> arising from pushcarts.Sadly, all of the families have vanished
> > >>>> from the
> > >>>> local scene.
> > >>>> RICH: no prejudice. Presbyterian Elder and son of Jewish father!
> > >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> > >>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2007 12:50 PM
> > >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Boggs & Buhl train
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> PLEASE GENTLEMAN ... BEFORE YOU READ THIS ... SOME THINGS IN HERE
> > >>>>> MAY
> > >>>>> SMELL OF A PREJUDICE.   I am only commenting on fact.   There
> > >>>>> is no
> > >>>>> prejudice involved in any way nor do I want there to be.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> They made money and they had prestiege.    Most were probably
> > >>>>> owned
> > >>>>> by local families or partnerships of local families.   I suspect
> > >>>>> that
> > >>>>> many of them were people willing, at least for the first 20 or
> > >>>>> more
> > >>>>> years, to work 60 to 80 hours a week.   Probably a fairly large
> > >>>>> number were Jewish.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Here in Lancaster we had five major department stores when I moved
> > >>>>> here in 1949.   Hagers was owned by John C. Hager III at that
> > >>>>> time.
> > >>>>> He lived in a rather secluded home in the woods on the hill behind
> > >>>>> me.   It would be more correct to say he owned one end of the
> > >>>>> hill.    Watt and Shands Department Store was the upper end.
> > >>>>> Peter
> > >>>>> Watt got out fairly early.   He owned a huge ornate Victorian
> > >>>>> mansion
> > >>>>> in the west end of town which still stands at Marietta and
> > >>>>> President
> > >>>>> Avenues with his name on the entrance pillars.  I'm not sure how
> > >>>>> wealthy the Shands were.   Milton T. Garvin owned the lower end
> > >>>>> department store ... he was a Unitarian Universalist and rather
> > >>>>> conservative.   The other two department stores were chains ...
> > >>>>> J. C.
> > >>>>> Penny and Sears Roebuck and Company.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> And there was one other local guy who built his very first store
> > >>>>> here
> > >>>>> and then moved on to bigger and better things. His name was
> > >>>>> Frank W.
> > >>>>> Woolworth.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Derrick ...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> You should stop by the library at the Baltimore Streetcar Museum
> > >>>>> on a
> > >>>>> Wednesday when the guys are working in the library and look for
> > >>>>> Dick
> > >>>>> Hutzler.   His family owned Hutzler's Department Store on Howard
> > >>>>> Street in downtown Baltimore.  My mother spent a fortune there on
> > >>>>> Saturdays in the 1950s and 1960s.   It was probably typical ...
> > >>>>> Jewish family as were most of the stores in Baltimore according to
> > >>>>> Dick.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I think the money was there in retailing as long as the public
> > >>>>> wanted
> > >>>>> and was willing to pay for service.   Once they accepted the
> > >>>>> slob in
> > >>>>> the box concept of marketing, then all the purveyor of merchandise
> > >>>>> could do is cut his margin and increase the number of stores in
> > >>>>> order
> > >>>>> to make a living.   The family could no longer aspire to have a
> > >>>>> single store and live well off of it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Apr 11, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Derrick J Brashear wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> The Boggs mansion is a few blocks from Federal on North. It's a
> > >>>>>> bed&breakfast now. I was in the bar there one night a month or so
> > >>>>>> ago
> > >>>>>> after a play nearby and had a hand in stopping a fire on their
> > >>>>>> porch. In
> > >>>>>> any case, the mansion's pretty nice. I guess being a department
> > >>>>>> store
> > >>>>>> maven meant something then
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >> _____________________________________________________________________
> > >> ___
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
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> 
>