[PRCo] Re: quick reply...The Clock

[Fred Schneider]

Herb:

Almost all of the new light-rail systems in the U. S. use the  
European proof of payment system.   These systems were installed when  
the lines were opened to the public.   Exceptions are usually  
existing lines such as Pittsburgh and Philadelphia.   You would have  
to go on line to their web sites and see who uses proof of payment  
systems ... off hand I can think of San Diego, Los Angeles, San Jose,  
Sacramento, Portland, Denver, Houston, Minneapolis, Baltimore, Buffalo.

It works as well as it's enforced.   There was a rather large brew-ha  
in Los Angeles last year or this year when SCRTD suggested  
installing  turnstiles because the fare evasion rate was too high.    
Of course the do gooders felt that this was criminal on the part of  
the transit authority ... we should not be forcing our riders to pay  
fares ... we should allow them to pay if the choose to.

The system works best in countries with populations that are  
accustomed to a very high degree of regulation, Germany comes to mind  
as an excellent example and in particular the Deutsche Demokratische  
Republik (communist east Germany before 1989).   My own encounter  
with the DDR in 1989 game me the impression that everyone was  
watching everyone in East Berlin ... that one would turn in his own  
mother or sister for fare evasion because if they did not do so, some  
one would turn in both of them.   Ten years later I watched in Erfurt  
(again in eastern unified Germany) as a fare evader knocked down a  
policeman and another passenger in his successful escape from being  
caught.   Regardless of that unique case in Erfurt, the system works  
well in Germany because Germans are very much accustomed to  
regulation in all aspects of their lives and accept it willingly.

The Netherlands, in my opinion was populated with people much like  
ourselves.   The hell with soccer.  On our first visit back in the  
1970s I came home thinking that fare evasion was the national sport.   
I must have been pretty much on target because a few years ago the  
nation as a whole went back to on-board fare collection on buses and  
streetcars.   The nobel experiment of buying tickets in vending  
machines and trusting the populace had failed.

It doesn't work too well in certain English cities either.   In  
Sheffield, for example, the local hooligans were smashing the ticket  
vending machines, extracting the cash boxes and taking them home.    
I'm not sure how the Brits resolved that issue.  Part of the  
resolution was privatizing the bus and tram system, if that's called  
a solution.

I remember watching one way to enforce a proof of payment system that  
worked flawlessly.   Many systems claim they have only a one percent  
or a half percent evasion rate, and they calculate it by the number  
of tickets written divided by the number of fares the collect plus  
the evaders.   What is missing in that equation are the passengers  
that dash for the open doors as soon as they see the police enter the  
train.  Well, in Grenoble, France, I watched as one policemen entered  
every door of the train.   There are five doors on one of those  
articulated cars, and I think there actually six policemen in the  
team.   There was no escape.  Within minutes they had one blushing  
individual out on the sidewalk and the ticket book was out.   They  
only captured on evader and they inspected everyone.  (Yes I had a  
day ticket.)   I think Grenoble had a pretty honest low rate of fare  
evasion.

Now, if Cleveland wants to come on to its trains with an 82nd  
Airborne style group of uniformed officers, one at each door, the  
system will work quite well.  Otherwise, you will have one percent  
published evasion, and the revenue will probably drop by about 30  
percent and the politicians will be looking for a way to make up the  
difference.

Cynical Fred / f3

On Aug 25, 2007, at 9:56 AM, Herb Brannon wrote:

> Sometime in the next several months GCRTA will embark on the  
> "German Fare System" on both the Red Line (heavy rail rapid  
> transit) and the Silver Line (Euclid Avenue Bus Rapid Transit).  
> There will be ticket machines at every station on both lines. There  
> will also be "inspection teams" composed of a ticket inspector,  
> supervisor and transit police officer. The fine for not having a  
> ticket is set at $150.00 plus court costs. The rapid transit fare  
> is $1.75. I don't think many, if any, cities in the U.S. have  
> "proof of payment" fare collection. This should be interesting.
> robert simpson <bobs at pacbell.net> wrote:  I once resided in Germany  
> and remember that each hour the radio stations also broadcast a  
> series of five (I think) "beeps" and the last "beep" was exactly  
> when the second-hand crossed 12. Don't know how they synchronized  
> all the clocks but they did. Each station of the U-Bahn or the S- 
> Bahn had schedules posted and the trains were precisely on-time.
>
> In those days (1980's), they had an honor system when you purchased  
> a ticket from a machine but it wasn't collected. Periodically,  
> however, a team would enter the cars and politely ask to see their  
> tickets. No ticket resulted in an immediate fine (rather substantial).
>
> Bob
>
> Fred Schneider wrote:
> The note is called thinking out loud or planting ideas.
>
> We can get ideas in the strangest of places. This afternoon I was
> watching a children's show on PBS. The subject was watches and time
> and clocks. The skit started with the actor being asked what time
> is it. He pulled up his sleeve and asked where? New York?
> Chicago? Los Angeles? London? He had watches set for
> everywhere. Digital watches. Analog watches. A sand clock that
> didn't work very well because he had to turn his arm upside-down
> every three minutes.
>
> Do you have any idea where I'm leading you all?
>
> No?
>
> Many of our guests in trolley museums have no idea that trolleys ran
> on tracks. They have no idea that than use electric motors. They
> have no idea that they get the power from a wire overhead.
>
> They don't know that you have to pay a fare to ride because they do  
> it.
>
> And it just occurred to me this afternoon that most ever saw a
> schedule. Most do not understand the relationship between a
> timetable and a clock.
>
> Now do you know where I'm going with this?
>
> I've included the Pittsburgh Railways web site because some of those
> guys are museum members. Some interested. Some may want to help.
>
> I'm think how train stations in Europe always have platform clocks.
> I think Swiss Federal Railways may have even linked all the station
> clocks in the entire country together because I've never found them
> to deviate by seconds from one another. If you are in some of those
> countries like Switzerland or Germany, when the second hand moves to
> the top of its sweep, the train usually starts moving out of the
> station.
>
> Now where do we get a large platform clock to be installed next to
> the platform at Arden (Richfol, and perhaps later moved to the east
> site) so we can show the public (particularly children) how schedules
> and a clock relate?
>
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> Herb Brannon
>
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