[PRCo] Re: Cleveland_--_Shaker

[Fred Schneider]

Just going through the file trying to catch up on some old stuff.

Pittsburgh Railways interurban PCCs had retrievers, not catchers  
Jim.   If you get your finger caught in one, you'll know the  
difference.   They did in the 1950s at least.   And the 1700 at PTM  
has a retriever.

I recall a Shaker motorman back in 1959 telling me just how much the  
line had been tamed down because of motorists making left turns in  
front of the cars, particularly out on Van Aken where the tracks were  
flanked by the highway on both sides.   He commented, in essence, the  
more motorists did it and got away with it, the more they continued  
to do it and further slowed down the cars.

This same phenomena was explained to me by Donald Duke as a curse or  
pox on Pacific Electric.  Henry Huntington built many of the PE lines  
to serve housing projects that he also created.   Sadly, a lot of  
those records are locked up in the Huntington Library for something  
like 100 years after the death of Huntington ... one can only suspect  
there was some monkey business.   Don recalled that a lot of the  
lines originally had grade crossings a mile apart on PE.   Then the  
communities forced crossings in between ... a half mile apart.   Then  
more intermediate crossings.   And pretty soon the trains that were  
barreling through towns  at 50 mph were now running at 25 down the  
middle of paved streets.    The automobile had won the war.

O doubt of the average on Shaker was over 20 mph because they made  
far more stops that the Pittsburgh interurbans and the top speed was  
still nothing more than a standard PCC but modified with 1 inch  
larger wheels  ... the balancing speed might have been 43.5 unless  
they were governed to a lower speed but we need to remember it still  
takes a mile to get up to that speed.   You might have gotten 45  
downhill into the terminal with a full car in the AM rush but up hill  
in the evening rush hour with standees ... I would bet that 30 mph  
was pushing the envelope even with no stops for a full mile.   And  
once you passed Shaker Square, you would have no more than a quarter  
mile between stops.    The advantage that Shaker Heights had was that  
long haul with only two intermediate stops between (I my mind is  
working ... E. 55th and E 34th)  between Shaker Square and the  
Terminal.   You could not do that with a bus or a car or your own  
automobile on city streets.

And I did like the pictures Jim.   I've stood many times at the  
junction at Shaker Square where you or someone took the picture of  
the Van Aken branching off.

The other one ... I take that to be within a half mile to the west of  
the station at Shaker Square, starting the long down hill into  
Cleveland.

The last two cars in the second picture and the last car in the first  
picture were second hand from Minneapolis; the other cars were the  
original left-door Pullman-GE cars bought new by the City of Shaker  
Heights, Ohio for its rapid transit line.

On Jan 14, 2007, at 7:13 PM, Jim Holland wrote:

> Shaker Heights Not At All Unlike PRCo Shannon, Library, and Drake
> except  Shaker  Total__PRW  And  Completely double track.
> .
> Shaker uses underground terminal in downtown Cleveland, leaves  
> downtown
> on prw in former canal bed and travels to Shaker Square  (Please  
> correct
> where appropriate, Herb)  WithOut Grade Crossings.       Here there  
> is a
> Loop  (Castle Shannon)  and just beyond the loop the line splits
> (Washington Junction!)  into Shaker  (Library)  and Van Aken
> (Drake!)       Grade crossings exists on these two routes but
> TrolleyCars have wide center of the highway prw and can really roll.
> Yard inside loop at Van Aken;  yard and shops between Shaker Square  
> and
> downtown  (South Hills Yard & Shops!!)
> .
> All the PCCs are MU and equipped with Retrievers, not catchers, like
> PRCo PCC Interurbans.       I prefer individual TrolleyCar operation
> (part of the reason I lack interest in mainline RR  'Trains!')  but it
> is neat to see a train of PCCs and after all, they are serving their
> purpose of moving large crowds of people at very high speeds.
> Inbound of Shaker Square in the canal bed without grade crossings the
> Ops seems to keep the Pedal To The Metal and you really roll through
> there.       Would like to know the average speed of the Shaker  
> lines in
> PCC days  --  might easily be over 20-mph!!       Charleroi and
> Washington worked out to about 16-18-mph average speed  --  Not Bad At
> All considering the street running encountered  --  downtown Pgh for
> both and much along the Charleroi line  --  less on Washington.
> .
> Definition of Light Rail defines the  'System'  and is Mostly  PRW   
> with
> little street running  --  boiling the def down to its very
> essence.       Shaker has    ALWAYS    fit this def so anything  
> that has
> run on Shaker might be consider an  lrv!!!       People don't seem to
> like this but an item does not have to be confined to one category  --
> it can easily fit the definitions of multiple categories.
> .
> The first photo shows a 3-car train of two Pullmans  (50-foot long
> cars)  and one St.Louis second hand from Minneapolis outbound at  
> Shaker
> heading to the right on the Van Aken line.       Note the second  
> car has
> its trolley pole hooked down and peebles say the advantage of  
> pantograph
> is it can suck up more current  --  seems like 2 trolley poles are
> adequate for current needs in this 3-car train!!!
> .
> The second photo shows a 4-car train inbound of Shaker and heading
> toward downtown Cleveland  --  3-St.Louis PCCs with one Pullman as the
> second car.
> .
> .
> .
> Jim___Holland
>
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