[PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07

John Swindler j_swindler at hotmail.com
Tue Feb 6 08:57:17 EST 2007 



>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:12:45 -0500
>
>I'm surprised that a computer geek like Bob Dietrich cannot use
>Google to figure out in advance how to use RATP and some service from
>Charles de Gaul Airport into Paris.   It took me less than one minute
>to find the URL attached to this which shows a bus service into Paris
>(to the Opera Metro station) for 8 Euros compared to 50 Euros for a cab.
>
>And you want to go from London to Milton Keynes?   Try the second
>URL.   I found five trains on the 10th of February out of Euston
>Station in the first 75 minutes of the afternoon.   That is Rail
>Europe's web site.   They want US$20 for a ticket.  You could
>probably do a whole lot better just going up to the booking clerk in
>Euston station in London with a pocket full of Pounds Sterling.
>

That would be Piccadilly line from Heathrow to Kings Cross, then 
Circle/Metropolitan line to Euston.  Or you could change from Piccadilly to 
Northern line at Leicester Sq.
>From Gatwick, ThamesLink trains to Kings Cross and one stop on Circle to 
Euston.  This avoids deep tubes.

John



>I think either John Swindler or I would be happy to take you to
>London....
>
>The Pennsylvanian to Pittsbugh?   You know, I used to use Number 25
>(The Metropolitan) every year to go to Pittsburgh.   Took 6 hours
>from Lancaster.   You can drive it in 4.5 hours.   Since Congame took
>the super elevation out of the curves to make them more compatible
>with those long and high box cars and double stacks,  it's now 6
>hours 12 minutes westbound and 6 hours 20 minutes eastbound and they
>don't require the time in Altoona anymore for a crew change and
>adding a helper ... in essence it's 40 minutes slower.   I rode it
>once on business to Pittsburgh in the 1980s when Amtrak had both a
>day train and the Broadway.
>
>http://www.aparisguide.com/arrival.htm
>
>http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/point_to_point/results.htm?
>cobrand=public&fn=fsRequest&c=USD&itemId=-1&r=0&F0=London&T0=Milton
>+Keynes&d0=10&m0=2&t0=afternoon&nA=1&nC=0&nY=0&nS=0&s=Search
>
>
>On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
>
> > Taking public transit when traveling requires two things.  First is
> > knowledge of the transit system, or, as J. S. points out knowledge
> > that
> > there IS a transit system.  Second you need to be able to schedule
> > around
> > that system.  In my extensive foreign travel (once to England, once to
> > Paris) I ended up in a cab or rental car.  Going from Heathrow to
> > Milton
> > Keynes would have taken something like 4 hours and cost a ton of
> > Euros, er
> > Pounds.  At least that was how it appeared on the web.  And those
> > last few
> > miles between the train station and hotel would have been a
> > killer.  Answer
> > - rent a car and drive like a maniac.
> >
> > In Paris we took a cab from de Gaulle to the hotel because we were
> > unsure
> > about the train, but once settled we rode the Metro everywhere.
> > What a
> > great system.  No rental car, no driving like a maniac.
> >
> > I'm still trying to justify, or find a legitimate excuse to ride the
> > Pennsylvanian from here to Pittsburgh.  If it is not the need for a
> > car out
> > there I'm hauling furniture, or modules or something.  Oh well,
> > enough...
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
> > Fred
> > Schneider
> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:04 PM
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
> >
> > John and all:
> >
> > I love my car.   And I think Ken Josephson loves his car too ...
> > maybe as much as his wife and daughter.   But there are still places
> > I will not take it.   I may drive it through but I see no sense in
> > parking it in downtown San Francisco (hotels are a lot cheaper down
> > in San Mateo and Caltrain works just fine or BART works fine from the
> > hotels in the East Bay).   Most of my trips to Europe have been car
> > rental trips because I love the countryside BUT I SCHEDULE THE
> > BIGGEST CITIES FOR THE BEGINNING OR THE END OF THE TRIP BEFORE OR
> > AFTER I PICK UP OR TURN IN THE CAR.   You do not need a rental car in
> > London or Rome or Paris or Munich or Zurich or Basel or any other
> > large European city, so find a hotel near the airport.   Best of all
> > find an airport with a hotel and train service into town and when
> > you're done there, then pick up the car.
> >
> > Zurich, Switzerland, for example, is a fabulous place.   The Swiss
> > Federal Railways has a train station in the basement of the
> > airport.   What better place can you find to arrive in a foreign
> > country.   London Heathrow or London Gatwick are the same ... Gatwick
> > is probably best of all because you don't need the fancy airport
> > trains (the regular Brighton - London locals also stop at the
> > airport).   Frankfurt, Germany also has mainline train service from
> > their airport to all over Germany.   Stockholm has high speed train
> > service from the airport to the center of the city ... rocket
> > sleds ... I think it was something like 125 mph.   (I'm sure Derrick
> > will tell us because he goes there frequently.)   These are a lot
> > better than the bus in Lisbon.
> >
> > On Feb 5, 2007, at 11:28 AM, John Swindler wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hi Fred
> >>
> >> Those on this list are not the average person.  The average person
> >> does not
> >> know what transit options are available.  And when it comes to
> >> foreign
> >> travel, they take with them their US experiences - which often
> >> means renting
> >> a car.  But Fred knows that he can stay in a Newark hotel and that
> >> PATH
> >> exists to take him to NYC.  And the rest on this list have similar
> >> "unusual"
> >> knowledge.  That's one of the reasons I like Fred's travelogues -
> >> they touch
> >> on the transit options.
> >>
> >> A couple from church visited San Francisco and complained how much
> >> they paid
> >> for parking at Fisherman's Wharf.  I replied that Carol and I
> >> didn't have to
> >> pay for parking when we visited this tourist site.  We bought Muni
> >> day
> >> passes and rode the streetcar.  At this, his eyes kind of glazed
> >> over - like
> >> I don't understand how you can visit and not have to use a car.
> >> Suspect
> >> most have had similar experiences
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
> >>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:13:30 -0500
> >>>
> >>> And once you got that truck, it's bloody hard to go back to the bus
> >>> isn't it....
> >>>
> >>> I used to use the bus too ... every where I went.   But when that
> >>> car
> >>> is right outside the door, it's hard to ignore.   The exceptions
> >>> have
> >>> been instance like staying in the Robert Treat Hotel in Newark and
> >>> wanting to go into New York City ... in that case you know it's a
> >>> whole lot easier to walk six blocks to the Lackawanna or
> >>> Pennslylvania stations and take the train into the big city and live
> >>> the damn car sit in the parking lot.   I react the same way if I'm
> >>> going from Lancaster to New York or Lancaster to Center City
> >>> Philadelphia, or Dawntawn Pittsburgh.   But aside from the largest
> >>> cities, it's pretty hard for me to leave my car at home anymore.
> >>>
> >>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> This past Christmas I broke down and bought myself a Christmas
> >>>> present.................a truck. I did not have a vehicle for
> >>>> nearly one year. So I used GCRTA to go everyplace..........the
> >>>> grocery store, the bank, the mall, work, etc. Bear in mind that I
> >>>> have always worked the "Extra Boad". Therefore, every day is a
> >>>> totally diffenent run assignment. I am happy to report that, at
> >>>> least in Cleveland, public transit still works well. I was always
> >>>> able to get to work at any hour of the day, any day of the week.
> >>>> Living downtown helped. Only on one occasion did I have to call a
> >>>> taxi. This was one morning when the 6-Euclid bus due at the Euclid/
> >>>> 32nd stop at 3:57am never showed. Otherwise you can get around
> >>>> Cleveland pretty well. However, now that I have the truck I have
> >>>> not resorted to the bus, car (lrv), or train. I have learned two
> >>>> things from this: 1) I know what our customers go through in order
> >>>> to use our services and I want to give them a decent transit trip,
> >>>> and, 2) We need
> >>>>  to keep a very high level of service, safety, passenger amenities,
> >>>> etc if we want customers to stay with public transit. The new level
> >>>> of "freedom" they attain will keep them in the private vehicle if
> >>>> we (public transit providers) do not do all necessary to keep them.
> >>>> Time to get off the soapbox. I made gumbo and the aroma is calling
> >>>> me to the kitchen. Later gang !
> >>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>> From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> >>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:50:41 PM
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> It's the convenience of letting someone else deal with rush hour
> >>>> traffic.
> >>>> Most small towns don't have rush hour traffic.    But even
> >>>> Harrisburg has
> >>>> rush hour congestion and parking is limited.  So I am happy to let
> >>>> the bus
> >>>> driver deal with it.
> >>>>
> >>>> And transfers on small systems are horrible because of the
> >>>> headways.  So if
> >>>> the factory job is not located in the center city, a car becomes
> >>>> much more
> >>>> attractive.
> >>>>
> >>>> Another factor:  how many young people today experienced the joy of
> >>>> being
> >>>> bused to school?  And getting access to a car eliminated being tied
> >>>> to the
> >>>> school bus schedule.  Suspect many never want to go back to
> >>>> reminders of
> >>>> their school bus experiences.  It has become a tough sell.
> >>>>
> >>>> While the feds will assure you that there is no difference in modal
> >>>> split
> >>>> between bus and rail for new start funding purposes, and that
> >>>> bus is
> >>>> cheaper, don't believe them.  They lie.
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> >>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 08:10:36 -0500
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't think it is that Herb.   I remember the Chief
> >>>>> Dispatcher at
> >>>>> Conestoga Transportation Co. telling me back in the 1970s about a
> >>>>> special bus service they established to serve the women who
> >>>>> worked at
> >>>>> Shick's razor factory and several other plants in the same
> >>>>> industrial
> >>>>> plant.   Their drivers noted that the passengers disappeared after
> >>>>> they received the second pay checks and when they inquired of the
> >>>>> other passengers where Suzy or Martha was the answer was
> >>>>> universal,
> >>>>> "They now have enough money to buy a car."   Factory runs no
> >>>>> longer
> >>>>> pay.   It's the services to dentists, doctors, lawyers and malls
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> the indigent and retired and under 16 that seem to have become the
> >>>>> mainstay of public transit, at least in the small towns and in the
> >>>>> suburbs of the larger cities.   Some management types will use
> >>>>> transit because it is easier than finding a place to park
> >>>>> downtown.
> >>>>> But the factory worker doesn't, even if the factory still exists.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 3, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Too bad. I guess since there are no factories remaining everyone
> >>>>>> works bankers hours? Or so the PAT management believes. We still
> >>>>>> have 14 routes w/ 24-hour service.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Herb Brannon
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
> >>>>>> From: Joshua Dunfield <joshuad at cs.cmu.edu>
> >>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:29:30 PM
> >>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
> >>>>>> 2/1/07
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Herb Brannon wrote:
> >>>>>>> Interesting to note that 24-hour service is beginning again.
> >>>>>>> When I
> >>>>>>> worked at PATransit 24-hour service was offered on both the
> >>>>>>> 42/38
> >>>>>>> and 35
> >>>>>>> car lines as well as many bus lines.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Unfortunately, 24-hour service died in the first round of cuts,
> >>>>>> around 2003
> >>>>>> if memory serves.  When it started in '01, one of my friends (who
> >>>>>> grew up in
> >>>>>> Stockholm) told me that "Pittsburgh is becoming a real city!"
> >>>>>> Well...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Best,
> >>>>>> -j.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide to the
> >>>> Academy
> >>>> AwardsR   http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?
> >>>> icid=ncoscartagline2
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
> >> on your
> >> Live.com page.
> >> http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

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