[PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
Fred Schneider
fwschneider at comcast.net
Tue Feb 6 14:47:01 EST 2007
We learn by doing Bob. Some of us learn faster and better than
others. Some never do. Railfans have a tendency to learn faster
because they understand maps and geography. My wife never will
understand ... she has been known to get lost and panic one mile from
home with ice cream melting in the car. She will never understand
how I could drive to Los Angeles and never open a road map.
On Feb 6, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
> New! New! New!!! Translation from India-speak - No! No! No
> thanks on
> the India trip. I refused to go when I was working so I'm not
> going for the
> fun of it... Thanks anyway.
>
> Another antidote about Europe travel then I'll quit. This one
> falls into
> the category of know what you are doing ahead of time. My daughter
> was
> studying in Ireland and decided to take a trip to Brussels for a
> weekend, by
> herself. She is quiet and shy so we were surprised that she went
> on this
> adventure. She got to Belgium around 11:15 PM and the busses to
> Brussels
> had just quit running, so after much consternation, and a call
> home, she
> took a cab. 130 Euros - that's a ton but we guessed that she was
> being
> ripped off by the cabbie. During the weekend she located the bus
> depot and
> wandered over there in plenty of time to get back to the airport. But
> someone gave her bad info on where to wait for the bus and, you
> guessed it,
> she missed the last bus. Another cab, another ton of euros.
>
> If she knew what she was doing, and was less fearful, she probably
> could
> have taken a train and or "tube", but she was trying to stay within
> her
> comfort zone and paid for it in euros. The next time she'll know
> better and
> go with a friend.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
> Fred
> Schneider
> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 11:41 AM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>
> Bon jour, Monsieur:
>
> OK Bob. Europe 101. You are far less likely to be mugged in
> Europe than you are on Market Street in Philadelphia or Liberty
> Avenue in Pittsburgh. You are far more likely to have your pocket
> picked in Europe than in the United States. Their criminals are a
> lot more crafty and a lot less dangerous to your health and
> safety. You simply carry your money where they cannot reach it
> easily. Only the stupid or ignorant carry their wallets in their
> hip pockets. Women carrying their belongings in a fanny purse are
> asking to have the contents removed. If a woman must carry a purse,
> you carry it under the arm. You might even consider coating the
> wallets with Velcro and the inside of the pockets with the companion
> eye-fabric so you can feel someone trying to get it.... Italy is
> worst. Tourist neighborhoods are bad. People who look like
> tourists are at the worst risk, i.e. those with cameras and
> guidebooks because they will not prosecute.
>
> I felt that St. Petersburg, Russia, was a terrible city. Horrid.
> Made Italy seem sane. But once I got out into the apartment blocks
> to photograph the trams, it really wasn't risky. It was just bad
> around the museums and churches because that is where all the
> pickpockets were hanging out in the crowds. There were at least 10
> out of the 40 on the CERA tour to Russia that had their pockets
> picket ... I wasn't one of them because I understood enough to travel
> with a buddy and we each kept an eye on each other in crowds or when
> one was taking a picture the other was protecting him. The dumb guy
> from Brooklyn had all his cards and over $250 in cash lifted 24 hours
> after he was warned not to carry a lot of cash. And maybe some day
> I'll go to Moscow because it's farther inland and away from the
> tourists.
>
> So, get a money belt and carry the credit cards, passport and cash
> inside your shirt.
>
> I would agree that a cab is probably a convenient way to get from a
> train station or the airport to a hotel in Paris but the very idea of
> spending that much money simply galls me. Every European city has a
> better way and the locals know it. Like London has a bus from
> Heathrow that goes to all of the major hotel districts. There is
> also a underground train from Heathrow and a railroad service from
> Heathrow to Paddington Station (which is great outbound because you
> can check the bags at Paddington and let the airline take over.)
>
> Probably one of the best travel shows in the business TRAVELS IN
> EUROPE. I have no idea if its on Channel 12 (Philadelphia) or WQED
> Pittsburgh but it is aired by WITF Harrisburg on Saturday
> afternoons. Rick Steves, the promoter, runs a travel store in
> Edmunds, Washington; a series of television programs from the public
> television station in Portland, Oregon; and a series of guided tours
> to Europe for the fit and healthy. The man understands travel. He
> has been in Europe many times every summer for perhaps the last two
> decades. His kids have grown up traveling. I crossed paths with
> him once in France. He favors small, economical hotels, often
> without lifts (elevators) and the joy of meeting and making friends
> with people. But interspersed throughout his shows are a hell of a
> lot of wisdom about how to travel on your own in Europe ... his tours
> are for those who will not do it on their own. But he tells you on
> television, how to exchange money, how to ride a train, how to do
> this and that. One of the amazing things about the tour I crossed
> patches with down in the Ardonne Region of France was that he was
> taking time out for French 101 ... if you're with him you will be
> forced to learn long to communicate if only just a little bit so you
> can say, "How much is this?" and "Can you point me to the men's
> room?" and "Good morning?" and "Thank you." If you just Google Rick
> Steves or Travels in Europe by Rick Steves you'll get pages of hits.
>
> Bob, you care to go with Bruce and me to India in 2008? There is a
> mail man down in Jacksonville that I'll invite too.... Costs will
> probably be under $5,000 each.
>
> Au revoir Fred3
>
> http://www.ricksteves.com/
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 6, 2007, at 9:14 AM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
>
>> Now I'm afraid I have to defend myself. On the web I found
>> basically the
>> connections John suggested below, but I don't understand "deep
>> tubes". No
>> matter, being a computer geek I'm more comfortable sitting behind a
>> desk
>> than I am trying to find my way around a foreign country with two
>> weeks
>> worth of luggage in tow and all but sporting a big sign that reads
>> TOURIST.
>> I wasn't a tourist and the company was paying for the car that we
>> really
>> needed once in Milton Keynes, a lovely planned community where
>> everyone
>> drives.
>>
>> As to Paris, Fred, I was warned so much about pickpockets that I
>> wasn't
>> going near the metro until I had nothing to carry or drag along and
>> I could
>> keep my hand in the same pocket as my wallet. Remember, my wife
>> was with me
>> so we had 6 weeks of luggage for the on week trip. So it was a cab
>> to the
>> hotel.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> John
>> Swindler
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 8:57 AM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to 2/1/07
>>> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2007 18:12:45 -0500
>>>
>>> I'm surprised that a computer geek like Bob Dietrich cannot use
>>> Google to figure out in advance how to use RATP and some service
>>> from
>>> Charles de Gaul Airport into Paris. It took me less than one
>>> minute
>>> to find the URL attached to this which shows a bus service into
>>> Paris
>>> (to the Opera Metro station) for 8 Euros compared to 50 Euros for
>>> a cab.
>>>
>>> And you want to go from London to Milton Keynes? Try the second
>>> URL. I found five trains on the 10th of February out of Euston
>>> Station in the first 75 minutes of the afternoon. That is Rail
>>> Europe's web site. They want US$20 for a ticket. You could
>>> probably do a whole lot better just going up to the booking clerk in
>>> Euston station in London with a pocket full of Pounds Sterling.
>>>
>>
>> That would be Piccadilly line from Heathrow to Kings Cross, then
>> Circle/Metropolitan line to Euston. Or you could change from
>> Piccadilly to
>> Northern line at Leicester Sq.
>> From Gatwick, ThamesLink trains to Kings Cross and one stop on
>> Circle to
>> Euston. This avoids deep tubes.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>> I think either John Swindler or I would be happy to take you to
>>> London....
>>>
>>> The Pennsylvanian to Pittsbugh? You know, I used to use Number 25
>>> (The Metropolitan) every year to go to Pittsburgh. Took 6 hours
>>> from Lancaster. You can drive it in 4.5 hours. Since Congame
>>> took
>>> the super elevation out of the curves to make them more compatible
>>> with those long and high box cars and double stacks, it's now 6
>>> hours 12 minutes westbound and 6 hours 20 minutes eastbound and they
>>> don't require the time in Altoona anymore for a crew change and
>>> adding a helper ... in essence it's 40 minutes slower. I rode it
>>> once on business to Pittsburgh in the 1980s when Amtrak had both a
>>> day train and the Broadway.
>>>
>>> http://www.aparisguide.com/arrival.htm
>>>
>>> http://www.raileurope.com/us/rail/point_to_point/results.htm?
>>> cobrand=public&fn=fsRequest&c=USD&itemId=-1&r=0&F0=London&T0=Milton
>>> +Keynes&d0=10&m0=2&t0=afternoon&nA=1&nC=0&nY=0&nS=0&s=Search
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 5:00 PM, Bob Dietrich wrote:
>>>
>>>> Taking public transit when traveling requires two things. First is
>>>> knowledge of the transit system, or, as J. S. points out knowledge
>>>> that
>>>> there IS a transit system. Second you need to be able to schedule
>>>> around
>>>> that system. In my extensive foreign travel (once to England,
>>>> once to
>>>> Paris) I ended up in a cab or rental car. Going from Heathrow to
>>>> Milton
>>>> Keynes would have taken something like 4 hours and cost a ton of
>>>> Euros, er
>>>> Pounds. At least that was how it appeared on the web. And those
>>>> last few
>>>> miles between the train station and hotel would have been a
>>>> killer. Answer
>>>> - rent a car and drive like a maniac.
>>>>
>>>> In Paris we took a cab from de Gaulle to the hotel because we were
>>>> unsure
>>>> about the train, but once settled we rode the Metro everywhere.
>>>> What a
>>>> great system. No rental car, no driving like a maniac.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still trying to justify, or find a legitimate excuse to ride
>>>> the
>>>> Pennsylvanian from here to Pittsburgh. If it is not the need for a
>>>> car out
>>>> there I'm hauling furniture, or modules or something. Oh well,
>>>> enough...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>>>> Fred
>>>> Schneider
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:04 PM
>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>
>>>> John and all:
>>>>
>>>> I love my car. And I think Ken Josephson loves his car too ...
>>>> maybe as much as his wife and daughter. But there are still
>>>> places
>>>> I will not take it. I may drive it through but I see no sense in
>>>> parking it in downtown San Francisco (hotels are a lot cheaper down
>>>> in San Mateo and Caltrain works just fine or BART works fine from
>>>> the
>>>> hotels in the East Bay). Most of my trips to Europe have been car
>>>> rental trips because I love the countryside BUT I SCHEDULE THE
>>>> BIGGEST CITIES FOR THE BEGINNING OR THE END OF THE TRIP BEFORE OR
>>>> AFTER I PICK UP OR TURN IN THE CAR. You do not need a rental
>>>> car in
>>>> London or Rome or Paris or Munich or Zurich or Basel or any other
>>>> large European city, so find a hotel near the airport. Best of
>>>> all
>>>> find an airport with a hotel and train service into town and when
>>>> you're done there, then pick up the car.
>>>>
>>>> Zurich, Switzerland, for example, is a fabulous place. The Swiss
>>>> Federal Railways has a train station in the basement of the
>>>> airport. What better place can you find to arrive in a foreign
>>>> country. London Heathrow or London Gatwick are the same ...
>>>> Gatwick
>>>> is probably best of all because you don't need the fancy airport
>>>> trains (the regular Brighton - London locals also stop at the
>>>> airport). Frankfurt, Germany also has mainline train service from
>>>> their airport to all over Germany. Stockholm has high speed train
>>>> service from the airport to the center of the city ... rocket
>>>> sleds ... I think it was something like 125 mph. (I'm sure
>>>> Derrick
>>>> will tell us because he goes there frequently.) These are a lot
>>>> better than the bus in Lisbon.
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 5, 2007, at 11:28 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Fred
>>>>>
>>>>> Those on this list are not the average person. The average person
>>>>> does not
>>>>> know what transit options are available. And when it comes to
>>>>> foreign
>>>>> travel, they take with them their US experiences - which often
>>>>> means renting
>>>>> a car. But Fred knows that he can stay in a Newark hotel and that
>>>>> PATH
>>>>> exists to take him to NYC. And the rest on this list have similar
>>>>> "unusual"
>>>>> knowledge. That's one of the reasons I like Fred's travelogues -
>>>>> they touch
>>>>> on the transit options.
>>>>>
>>>>> A couple from church visited San Francisco and complained how much
>>>>> they paid
>>>>> for parking at Fisherman's Wharf. I replied that Carol and I
>>>>> didn't have to
>>>>> pay for parking when we visited this tourist site. We bought Muni
>>>>> day
>>>>> passes and rode the streetcar. At this, his eyes kind of glazed
>>>>> over - like
>>>>> I don't understand how you can visit and not have to use a car.
>>>>> Suspect
>>>>> most have had similar experiences
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 19:13:30 -0500
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And once you got that truck, it's bloody hard to go back to the
>>>>>> bus
>>>>>> isn't it....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used to use the bus too ... every where I went. But when that
>>>>>> car
>>>>>> is right outside the door, it's hard to ignore. The exceptions
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> been instance like staying in the Robert Treat Hotel in Newark
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> wanting to go into New York City ... in that case you know it's a
>>>>>> whole lot easier to walk six blocks to the Lackawanna or
>>>>>> Pennslylvania stations and take the train into the big city and
>>>>>> live
>>>>>> the damn car sit in the parking lot. I react the same way if
>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>> going from Lancaster to New York or Lancaster to Center City
>>>>>> Philadelphia, or Dawntawn Pittsburgh. But aside from the
>>>>>> largest
>>>>>> cities, it's pretty hard for me to leave my car at home anymore.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 4, 2007, at 4:44 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This past Christmas I broke down and bought myself a Christmas
>>>>>>> present.................a truck. I did not have a vehicle for
>>>>>>> nearly one year. So I used GCRTA to go everyplace..........the
>>>>>>> grocery store, the bank, the mall, work, etc. Bear in mind
>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>> have always worked the "Extra Boad". Therefore, every day is a
>>>>>>> totally diffenent run assignment. I am happy to report that, at
>>>>>>> least in Cleveland, public transit still works well. I was
>>>>>>> always
>>>>>>> able to get to work at any hour of the day, any day of the week.
>>>>>>> Living downtown helped. Only on one occasion did I have to
>>>>>>> call a
>>>>>>> taxi. This was one morning when the 6-Euclid bus due at the
>>>>>>> Euclid/
>>>>>>> 32nd stop at 3:57am never showed. Otherwise you can get around
>>>>>>> Cleveland pretty well. However, now that I have the truck I have
>>>>>>> not resorted to the bus, car (lrv), or train. I have learned two
>>>>>>> things from this: 1) I know what our customers go through in
>>>>>>> order
>>>>>>> to use our services and I want to give them a decent transit
>>>>>>> trip,
>>>>>>> and, 2) We need
>>>>>>> to keep a very high level of service, safety, passenger
>>>>>>> amenities,
>>>>>>> etc if we want customers to stay with public transit. The new
>>>>>>> level
>>>>>>> of "freedom" they attain will keep them in the private
>>>>>>> vehicle if
>>>>>>> we (public transit providers) do not do all necessary to keep
>>>>>>> them.
>>>>>>> Time to get off the soapbox. I made gumbo and the aroma is
>>>>>>> calling
>>>>>>> me to the kitchen. Later gang !
>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>> From: John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 4, 2007 12:50:41 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's the convenience of letting someone else deal with rush hour
>>>>>>> traffic.
>>>>>>> Most small towns don't have rush hour traffic. But even
>>>>>>> Harrisburg has
>>>>>>> rush hour congestion and parking is limited. So I am happy to
>>>>>>> let
>>>>>>> the bus
>>>>>>> driver deal with it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And transfers on small systems are horrible because of the
>>>>>>> headways. So if
>>>>>>> the factory job is not located in the center city, a car becomes
>>>>>>> much more
>>>>>>> attractive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Another factor: how many young people today experienced the
>>>>>>> joy of
>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>> bused to school? And getting access to a car eliminated being
>>>>>>> tied
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> school bus schedule. Suspect many never want to go back to
>>>>>>> reminders of
>>>>>>> their school bus experiences. It has become a tough sell.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> While the feds will assure you that there is no difference in
>>>>>>> modal
>>>>>>> split
>>>>>>> between bus and rail for new start funding purposes, and that
>>>>>>> bus is
>>>>>>> cheaper, don't believe them. They lie.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>>> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2007 08:10:36 -0500
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't think it is that Herb. I remember the Chief
>>>>>>>> Dispatcher at
>>>>>>>> Conestoga Transportation Co. telling me back in the 1970s
>>>>>>>> about a
>>>>>>>> special bus service they established to serve the women who
>>>>>>>> worked at
>>>>>>>> Shick's razor factory and several other plants in the same
>>>>>>>> industrial
>>>>>>>> plant. Their drivers noted that the passengers disappeared
>>>>>>>> after
>>>>>>>> they received the second pay checks and when they inquired of
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> other passengers where Suzy or Martha was the answer was
>>>>>>>> universal,
>>>>>>>> "They now have enough money to buy a car." Factory runs no
>>>>>>>> longer
>>>>>>>> pay. It's the services to dentists, doctors, lawyers and
>>>>>>>> malls
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the indigent and retired and under 16 that seem to have
>>>>>>>> become the
>>>>>>>> mainstay of public transit, at least in the small towns and
>>>>>>>> in the
>>>>>>>> suburbs of the larger cities. Some management types will use
>>>>>>>> transit because it is easier than finding a place to park
>>>>>>>> downtown.
>>>>>>>> But the factory worker doesn't, even if the factory still
>>>>>>>> exists.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Feb 3, 2007, at 7:39 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Too bad. I guess since there are no factories remaining
>>>>>>>>> everyone
>>>>>>>>> works bankers hours? Or so the PAT management believes. We
>>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>>> have 14 routes w/ 24-hour service.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----
>>>>>>>>> From: Joshua Dunfield <joshuad at cs.cmu.edu>
>>>>>>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 3, 2007 5:29:30 PM
>>>>>>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: pat__service__cuts__2007.01.23-changed to
>>>>>>>>> 2/1/07
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Interesting to note that 24-hour service is beginning again.
>>>>>>>>>> When I
>>>>>>>>>> worked at PATransit 24-hour service was offered on both the
>>>>>>>>>> 42/38
>>>>>>>>>> and 35
>>>>>>>>>> car lines as well as many bus lines.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Unfortunately, 24-hour service died in the first round of
>>>>>>>>> cuts,
>>>>>>>>> around 2003
>>>>>>>>> if memory serves. When it started in '01, one of my friends
>>>>>>>>> (who
>>>>>>>>> grew up in
>>>>>>>>> Stockholm) told me that "Pittsburgh is becoming a real city!"
>>>>>>>>> Well...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>> -j.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>> _
>>>>>>> Check out all that glitters with the MSN Entertainment Guide
>>>>>>> to the
>>>>>>> Academy
>>>>>>> AwardsR http://movies.msn.com/movies/oscars2007/?
>>>>>>> icid=ncoscartagline2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>> Get in the mood for Valentine's Day. View photos, recipes and more
>>>>> on your
>>>>> Live.com page.
>>>>> http://www.live.com/?addTemplate=ValentinesDay&ocid=T001MSN30A0701
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
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