[PRCo] Re: Shovel__Car--__--Work__Equipment

[Jim Holland]

Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
.

> That roster was compiled back in the 1960s and is replete with 
> errors.       Someday we will see a corrected listing, but I can't say 
> when.

.
In addition to being unreadable in many areas    ----    but tis a good  
'Guide!!'
.
.
.

> As far as we know, "M" meant "Miscellaneous." M1 was not in 
> maintenance of way service, for example.

.
Thought about that - Money cars the same.       But the bulk were for 
maintenance.       Could we say maintenance & health of the staff and 
employees for Pay Car?!?!?!?!
.
.
.

> M1 was built for Pittsburgh, Allegheny & Manchester St Ry in 1890.     
>   United Traction was not around until 1896-97.       There was a 
> feature article in Street Railway Journal about the car's conversion 
> to pay service in 1897.       Originally it was an underpowered double 
> truck car that proved to be unsatisfactory on the local 
> topography.       Duquesne Traction had similar cars; they sold them 
> to Baltimore, I believe.       To make M1, the carbody was shortened 
> and placed on a 4-wheel truck.

.
I had  'heard'  that it was an horsecar that was  'UpGraded'  to electric!!
.
.
.

> We don't actually know the date that M3 (FS&PV 101) was built, but 
> think it was much earlier than 1893.
>
> And finally...please refresh my memory, Jim, about that list of weird 
> equipment that I have! I'm drawing a blank!

.
The  'Rule__Of__Thumb'  for the list is that the archivist has the 
info!!!!!       Thought the prodding might bring it forth!!
.
Thanks to others as well for specifics    ----    I just listed an 
Overview of the equipment    ----    there are  'M'any  'M'  cars which 
were converted to other work assignments during their tenure    ----    
I didn't want to get into all the specifics.
.
By the way,  What  Is  ""Gwd.__Dinkey""???       AND
.
Any idea how PRCo listed the  'apparently'  UnListed items like the 
shovel and rail grinders??
.
.
.

> Ed
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Jim
> Holland
> Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 4:35 PM
> To: - 1714 PRCo__WP__JTC -; - 1717 PRCo__WP__JTC -
> Subject: [PRCo] Shovel__Car--__--Work__Equipment
>
>
> I have an 81 page listing of all 'Rolling__Stock' owned by PRCo on 
> letter sized paper, done by typewriter, single-spaced. Some of the 
> listings are tables of cross-references showing the original owner and 
> car number (like Ardmore St. Railway; Pittsburgh & Birmingham St. Rwy. 
> and their respective car numbers) and the numbers assigned after PRCo 
> takeover i-f the numbers were changed.
> .
> .
> A dozen of these pages list the 'M' equipment in Landscape mode so 
> more information can be provided for each car. Unfortunately, I do not 
> see the Shovel Car listed here And I do Not See some rail grinders 
> that I know PRCo had. These unlisted items may have been 
> 'Miscellaneous__Equipment' which had to be carted to the sight "ON" 
> something else and could not operate under its own power or be towed 
> at normal operating speeds among other TrolleyCar or street traffic as 
> standard 'M'-cars could. More about this later.
> .
> .
> .
> Believe that the 'M' designation in front of a number on a TrolleyCar 
> stands for 'Maintenance or Maintenance of Way' Equipment, Not 
> Miscellaneous ---- Please Verify or Correct if Wrong!!! The listings 
> start with M1 (now at PTM) and end with M701 in addition to M1276, F1 
> through F9, a few Named Vehicles, and about a dozen unnumbered 
> vehicles. The listings are not consecutive but the gaps are rather 
> insignificant and some numbers were used more than once. As already 
> mentioned, these 'M'-Cars could operate on their own or be towed by 
> motor cars in mixed traffic with any other vehicles on streets or prw.
> .
> Ed made a comment the other day about one of the work cars that a 
> number was only assigned to one car at a time. I wondered about this 
> comment for a while and then realized that I may have given the 
> impression that more than one car could have the same number. My 
> apologies for this was not intended; a close check of the dates for 
> number usage where such was posted would reveal this. Lettuce look at 
> an example:::::::
> .
> There were three different TrolleyCars which bore the M11 number but 
> never at the same time. The second car to bear the number M11 was 
> actually built one year before the first car to bear M11 but the 
> conversion of the second car to M11 didn't happen until 3-months after 
> the first M11 was scrapped.
> .
> 01.>-- The Original M11 was a test car built by PU (Pullman) for 
> Pittsburgh Allegheny & Manchester St. Rwy in 1904 with their car 
> number of 35. This Test TrolleyCar was 15'6" long and was scrapped by 
> Burning at Tunnel on 1926.07.21 -- that is all the information that is 
> listed for this car.
> .
> 02.>-- The 2nd M11 was built in 1903 by Laclede and was apparently 
> used as passenger TrolleyCar 3271 which was converted to M11 Meter 
> Test on 1926.10.03, Less__Than 3-months after the first M11 was 
> scrapped. This second M11 was scrapped by turning at Ingram on 1946.03.06
> .
> 03.>-- The 3rd and last M11 was built in 1936 as PCC 100 which was 
> converted to Instruction Car M11 on 1949.06.xx
> .
> 04.>-- The 1st and 2nd M11 cars were on the property at the same time 
> but sported different numbers -- M11 and 3271.       Three months 
> after scrapping of the first M11 we find that 3271 was converted to 
> M11. Similar with the 2nd and 3rd M11s!!!
> .
> .
> .
> .
> UNLISTED____Equipment:
> .
> .
> I do not see the "Shovel"" that Ray discovered on this listing of 'M' 
> Cars; I also know of rail grinders that are not on the list as well. 
> There are only 3 rail grinders listed, ALL were conversions from 
> former passenger cars (3497, 3218, and 3264)  and all were scrapped by 
> 1950. The rail grinder I saw in operation in the latter 1950s was 
> hauled to the site on a trailer behind an PRCo truck, had a trolley 
> pole for its own power with a swivel wheel, would operate on rubber 
> tires off and onto its trailer as well as to clear the track to allow 
> a TrolleyCar to pass (thus the Trolley Coach swivel wheel on the 
> trolley pole) And would operate at very low speeds on steel wheels on 
> rail to grind the rail. The shovel from Ray could probably set on rail 
> but apparently didn't operate under its own power or had very limited 
> capability so to do; it also had to be carted to the site ON some 
> other piece of equipment. This equipment thus did not qualify as 'M' 
> equipment as we know it but probably some miscellaneous category where 
> the name of the vehicle would be sufficient for identification. ED has 
> that list of strange equipment ready for sending!!!!!!!
> .
> .
> .
> .
> OVERVIEW____Of___M--Cars!!!
> .
> .
> M1 was a Pay car built for United Traction by Pullman in 1894!!!       
> Other than being sold to PERC on 1949.05.02, other information is not 
> listed.
> .
> M3 was a Horsecar built in 1893 by Stephenson for United Traction as 
> their number 101. It was on display in South Park (34 is listed and 
> don't know if that was a number or the year it was taken there -- I 
> remember seeing this car in South Park. A handwritten note seems to 
> indicate that it was stored after 1971 at some Village -- doesn't 
> appear to be SHV.)
> .
> M5 thru M9 consecutively were Money cars, there were three M10s and 
> M11s and M12 was a Money Car.
> .
> M12 through M56 consecutively were Sweepers by a variety of builders 
> and all but M50 through M56 were initially built for a railway other 
> than PRCo.
> .
> M65 thru M69 were Sprinklers.
> .
> M80 thru M88 were Express-Work cars.
> .
> M90 through M99 were Freight Cars.
> .
> M100 was built for Consolidated Railway as car 199; date of building 
> and conversion not listed nor is the type of work listed; scrapped 
> 1925.02.08
> .
> M103? -- M104 Ash Car -- M105 & M106?
> .
> M110 thru M124 were Wrecker Cars.
> .
> M125 through M134 numbers were used more than once on either a Tool 
> Car or Wrecker with the last two being Traffic Painting Cars!
> .
> M135 thru M164 were Sand Cars.
> .
> M165 through M195 were Shifters.
> .
> M196 through M200 were Tow Cars.
> .
> M201 thru M209 were Tower Cars.
> .
> M210 thru M433 were various Flats with some having Snow Scrapers 
> Added, some specially used as Ash & Coal cars, several for 
> Advertizing, a couple as Car Cleaner, one a Horsecar, M280 thru M285 
> as Cranes, a couple as Wreckers, some as Line Cars and one or two for 
> welding.       The Original M400 was a Hand car built at Rankin by 
> PRCo in 1911 and scrapped there on 1921.03.25.
> .
> M450 thru M459 are former 4000s and 4100s used as Snow Scrapers, also 
> in towing.
> .
> M500 thru M539 have some listed as Dump Cars, others don't indicate 
> particular work specification.
> .
> M540 through M549 find the 3 rail grinders, welding cars, rail car, 
> compressor cars.
> .
> M550 thru M555 are Dumps
> .
> M600 thru M619 are Sand Cars.
> .
> M700 and M701 are Rail Cars.
> .
> M1276 was the PCC snow plow.
> .
> F1 thru F9 were freight, with F8 and F9 Also Snow Plows.
> .
> Plain Old "1" was a portable Substation.
> .
> "Pittsburgh" was the name of a vehicle for Officers.
> .
> "Duquesne" was the name of a vehicle for Officers.
> .
> 109 was an Exhibit Car.
> .
> There were 2 Express-Work cars without M-numbers.
> .
> There were two other cars without M-numbers and without work description.
> .
> The final listing is for 10 cars without M-numbers which are listed as 
> ""Gwd.__Dinkey""
> .
> .
> .
> Jim___Holland