[PRCo] ex-1601s__As__177x__and__Up

[Jim Holland]

Agreed!       Original discussion was about Original 1700s and Ex-1601s 
rebuilt // renumbered as 1700s.       Nothing was said about the 4000s 
which came along later.
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Thank You for passing this on because it confirms original observations, 
although orig observations were not quite stated right:       For the 
rebuilt 1601s,  TOO  much was added to MG which caused More Draw from 
the battery which was drained and thus the car shut down.       This 
was  NOT  the fault of the 1601s but the fault of the design.
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As Russ said, not much in the way of understanding, even in some of 
these replies!!!!!
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Jim
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Boris Cefer wrote:
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> I think this does not say much about the rebuilt air cars. As for the 
> 4000s, it is not so difficult to guess they were different from each 
> other.
>
> B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:58 PM
> Subject: [PRCo]
>
>
>> HERE ARE TWO POSTS. THE INTRODUCTIONS ARE IN CAPS, THE POSTS ARE IN 
>> UPPER/LOWER. THE FIRST BORIS HAS ALREADY SEEN BECAUSE THE ORIGINATOR 
>> FORWARDED IT TO BORIS AS WELL. IT PERTAINS TO THE ISSUE OF MG & 
>> BATTERY CAPACITY ON THE REBUILT PCCS IN PITTSBURGH.
>>
>> THE FIRST IS FROM RUSS JACKSON, THE ENGINEER WHO DESIGNED THE 
>> KAWASAKI CARS AND N5 CARS FOR SEPTA. RUSS HAS HAD A LONG CAREER IN 
>> THE INDUSTRY.
>>
>> All - Boris is (of course) correct. The lighting load is not 
>> insignificant, but under normal conditions should be within the MG's 
>> capacity. The only time that the MG capacity might be exceeded is 
>> when you apply full track brake. When that occurs, then the battery 
>> will come into play and pick up part of the load. If you were to lose 
>> the MG, then a full track brake application might be a bit weaker 
>> than with the MG running. On the Kawasaki cars, they run routine 
>> checks of the battery by turning off the MA (now a converter) and 
>> apply the track brake. (only one step - full) Then you measure the 
>> voltage over time to get an idea of how much battery capacity is 
>> remaining. Even though a battery has not failed, the capacity 
>> decreases over the years. Don't know what the original problem 
>> description was, but would appear there's not a lot of understanding 
>> going on.
>>
>> cheers, Russ
>>
>> Are you suggesting, Boris, that the MG or MA set did not have a 
>> charging rate sufficient to cover the car's full load when in 
>> operation at night with all lights turned on? That perhaps they 
>> simply used the original MG and superimposed all the additional load 
>> on the battery?
>>
>> THE SECOND POST COMES FROM DAVE HAMLEY OF PITTSBURGH, WHO WORKED FOR 
>> WESTINGHOUSE AND STILL WORKS FOR THEIR SUCCESSOR, BOMBARDIER.
>>
>> I personally have no detailed knowledge of the 4000s electrical 
>> secrets. I'll cc Jeff King, who may have some idea.
>>
>> I have been told that no two 4000s were alike, so there may be 
>> multiple answers to your question.
>>
>> Worse comes to it, we could examine 4004 to at least know what was 
>> going on late in the game.
>