[PRCo] Re: Transit evolution

Ken & Tracie ktjosephson at earthlink.net
Sun Mar 11 14:08:46 EDT 2007 

It also destroyed a lot of viable urban neighborhoods where the citizens did 
not possess the political clout to force the expressway be built elsewhere 
through town.

K.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution


>
>
> It made a lot of oil companies and highway contractors very wealthy.
>
>
>
>>From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>>Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 13:16:44 -0400
>>
>>Worked didn't it?
>>
>>Do interstate highways save fuel compared to driving at 35 miles per
>>hour and cooling your heels at stops signs and traffic lights?   Or
>>did they causes us to drive more miles and thus burn more fuel than
>>we would have done if we did not have limited access highways?
>>
>>Chicken and egg argument.    Unanswerable.
>>
>>On Mar 11, 2007, at 1:09 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > But still, calling the interstate highways a national defense
>> > system was a
>> > public relations ploy.  It was no more national defense then tv
>> > killed West
>> > Penn and National City Lines got rid of the trolleys.
>> >
>> > It was the way to sell a major highway construction program to the
>> > politicians and public in the 1950s.
>> >
>> > Going back to 1919 - why would you want to send a military convoy
>> > by road
>> > from Washington to Pittsburgh and onto west coast other then for test
>> > purposes or for public relations?  More likely both.  It was just
>> > by the
>> > dumbest of luck that the convoy commander ended up being a future
>> > president.
>> >
>> > Even into Desert Storm, a lot of military cargo went by rail.
>> > Small units
>> > usually moved by highway convoy, but brigade and above usually used
>> > rail.
>> > And that's both US and Europe.  Actually, in Europe in 1990 - how
>> > would you
>> > move a 7th Corps from Germany to Rotterdam and Antwerp for movement
>> > to Saudi
>> > Arabia?  Certainly not by highway.  Much by rail, but a lot also by
>> > barge.
>> >
>> > John
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> >> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>> >> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 18:40:04 -0500
>> >>
>> >> And in 1919 it took the convoy three days to get from Washington to
>> >> Pittsburgh and those were good roads.
>> >>
>> >> On Mar 10, 2007, at 3:26 PM, John Swindler wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Ike also saw the autobahn's in Germany.  Yes, they may have been a
>> >>> German
>> >>> showcase, but they were a great help to the Allies in closing weeks
>> >>> of the
>> >>> war.  I'll have to check to see if 2nd Armor used an autobahn - it
>> >>> covered
>> >>> half the distance to Berlin in one day.   Around 100 miles comes to
>> >>> mind,
>> >>> but would really want to research that.
>> >>>
>> >>> Yet when it comes down to moving tonnage, nothing compares with
>> >>> rail.  And
>> >>> Ike knew that.  But rail is more susceptible to interdiction.  The
>> >>> Red Ball
>> >>> Express truck convoys were just an expedient until the French rail
>> >>> system
>> >>> could be restored.  And that restoration was never completed -
>> >>> Antwerp was
>> >>> captured.
>> >>>
>> >>> The Interstate system connection with national defense may be more
>> >>> public
>> >>> relations then anything else.
>> >>>
>> >>> John Swindler, Maj, retired
>> >>> Transportation Corps.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <trams2 at comcast.net>
>> >>>> Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >>>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>> >>>> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:17:17 -0500
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The 1919 trip was assuredly the motivation for the Interstate
>> >>>> Highway
>> >>>> System.  It's well-documented in the recent (2-4 years ago?) book
>> >>>> on the
>> >>>> subject.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> >>>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of
>> >>>> Fred
>> >>>> Schneider
>> >>>> Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 8:43 PM
>> >>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Transit evolution
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ONLY 25 MINUTES BETTER THAN THE 1930 TRAIN SCHEDULE!
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I guess I need to research the legislation that created the
>> >>>> Interstate Highway System that Dwight Eisenhower signed into law in
>> >>>> 1954.   Without any additional background information, I cannot
>> >>>> help
>> >>>> but be lead or mislead to conclude that Ike's military convoy by
>> >>>> truck across the United States that took two months in 1919 and was
>> >>>> done to demonstrate a need for good highways stuck with him lock
>> >>>> afterward and may have lead him to support the Federal Interstate
>> >>>> Highway Program.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I can remember numerous family vacations in the 1940s and 1950s
>> >>>> when
>> >>>> we averaged 30 miles per hour.   I can remember one incredibly long
>> >>>> day when we left a cousin's home in Palos Park, Illinois, just off
>> >>>> route 30 southwest of Chicago, early one morning and dragged
>> >>>> into the
>> >>>> grandparent's home in Marietta, Ohio at 2 AM the next morning,
>> >>>> having
>> >>>> inched along route 30 through Fort Wayne and Lima and then down to
>> >>>> Columbus and Zanesville and then down along the Muskingum River
>> >>>> after
>> >>>> midnight.    And then I think after Interstate Highways, driving
>> >>>> from
>> >>>> Palo Alto CA to Salt Lake City in the same time and from Grand
>> >>>> Island
>> >>>> NE to Lancaster PA from 9 AM one day to lunch time the next day.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mar 9, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Bill Robb wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> My next memories are that Lake Shore Coach Company, the
>> >>>>> successor to
>> >>>>> Lake Shore Electric Railway had traded franchises with Central
>> >>>>> Greyhound.  CG ended up with the Cleveland - Toledo route and LSC
>> >>>>> got
>> >>>>> the Cleveland to Marietta service.  In the 1950s I remember Lake
>> >>>>> Shore Coach Company's PG 3701 buses in Marietta painted brown and
>> >>>>> orange ... the orange probably a leftover from the interurban car
>> >>>>> livery.    I don't have any schedules but I suspect they might
>> >>>>> have
>> >>>>> averaged 25 to 30 miles per hour, which would have required 5
>> >>>>> hours
>> >>>>> 30 minutes to 6 hours 45 minutes for the Marietta - Cleveland run.
>> >>>>> Driving it in an automobile in those days would have taken at
>> >>>>> least
>> >>>>> five hours.
>> >>>>> So why doesn't public transportation work today?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Because I can get in my Volkswagen and drive the 168 miles on
>> >>>>> Interstate 77 in 2 hours 30 minutes in spite of Ohio's overly
>> >>>>> aggressive State Troopers.
>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> -------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I have a timetable for Feb 1946 when the bus line was still Penn
>> >>>>> Ohio which was later taken over by Greyhound.  Cleveland-Marietta
>> >>>>> was 7 hours then. But you stopped at every place along the way.
>> >>>>> And the bus ran everyday.  People still worked 6 days a week.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> __________________________________________________________________
>> >>>>> __
>> >>>>> __
>> >>>>> ______________
>> >>>>> Get your own web address.
>> >>>>> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
>> >>>>> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
>> >>>>>
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>> >>>>> utf-8?q?Penn=20Ohio.jpg?=
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >>> The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by
>> >>> Experian.
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>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
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