[PRCo] Re: Drum__Brakes_--_All-Electrics,__etc........

Sun May 27 14:05:01 EDT 2007

It was not so much the fact that the air cars may have been unsafe...............for that matter the all-electrics were not the best either. It was strictly the "looks" of the car. The all-electric 1700s had a more comfortable operators area. Better seat, higher seat, better arranged switch panel. Also, I personally liked the fans. During hot weather the 1700s, even with the sealed windows, were cooler than the 1600s. The fans, when operating at full speed, created gale-force winds within the car. This air turblence, coupled with the side window in the operators area which opened, gave a brisk breeze past the operator. Cars 1700 - 1724 also had the opening rear window which I would open during hot weather. I also like the seating arrangement in the 1700s better than the 1600s. All forward facing seats seemed more liked by the riders than the bench seats in the 1600s. People especially liked the single seats on the closed side of the 1700s between the front and center doors.
 Generally the layout of the car interior of the 1700s was more pleasing to the eye than the "cattle-car" look of the 1600s. The all electrics also had better door and wiper operation than the air cars. All in all, inside and outside, the all electrics had it over the air cars in my book.

  CAR 1727 -- AND A "True Tales Short"

  As for 1727, I did not hear an 'official' cause of that accident. However, as I said, mechanical things can only go so long before they fall apart. 

  I never cared for 1727. When it operated as normally as it could it rode rough and jerked a lot when accelerating and braking. I can remember one time having it on the 42/38 going across the Palm Garden Bridge. At the south end of that bridge was a curve to the right. Formerly this point was the switch for 39 cars going down the ramp to W. Liberty Avenue. I was going south, across the bridge, and gave an application of the brakes just short of that right-curve. Instead of slowing it felt as if the car gained speed. It was actually 'free-wheeling'. The curve was right there and while the speed was not fast enough to cause a derailment, I knew it was fast enough to cause things inside the car (such as passengers) to go flying if the car were to hit the curve at that speed. I actually turned and announced that they should hold on for a sharp turn to the right. Just as 1727's front truck hit the curve the brakes took hold and the car went on, normally. People looked at me
 like I didn't know what I was talking about. Another time, a week or two after that incident, another operator was heading into downtown in 1727 and left S.Hills Jct normally during a morning rush hour. As the car got up to speed in the tunnel, and downhill at that, that operator made an application of the brakes and good ole 1727 did its "No Brakes Trick" again. The car gathered speed so he actually went so far as to have passengers get on the floor, fearing the worse at the Carson Street end of the tunnel. Then, according to this operator, about three-fourths of the way down the tunnel the brakes applied themselves and the car operated normally. Bear in mind he had a car full of passengers, heading to work, dressed fairly well, and now laying on the floor. PATransit paid big time cleaning bills over that incident. I heard other operators making fun of this guy for getting excited and having the passenger get in the "crash position". I had, until this tunnel incident, not
 told anyone about the experience I had with 1727 on the Palm Garden Bridge. Now, however, I told the Station Superintendent and also told the other guys to stop ribbing that operator about what happened. Several times after these two incidents I heard other operators relate incidents of "no brakes", then normal operation with 1727.  Now I really disliked 1727 and it became the only all-electric I would try to avoid. I guess they never actually figured out what caused 1727s malady.........and we know the final result when it crashed INSIDE the P & LE Station building.

  Ken & Tracie <ktjosephson at earthlink.net> wrote:
  Form Herb:
Were the air cars so poorly maintained or so deteriorated mechanically that 
you made it a point to change out for a 1700 whenever you had the "over the 
hill" run?

For anybody who recalls the 1727 runaway accident:

What caused the brakes to fail on 1727 when it ran away and derailed? That 
made the paper way out here in Las Vegas.

No broken air lines on that car... ;-)

K.

Rise Up -- Go Cavs
  Herb Brannon