[PRCo] Fw: More primitive, old-fashioned trolleys!

[Jim Holland]

"Stephen Sprunk"  wrote in message news:...
 > "Hans-Joachim Zierke" wrote in message
 > news:slrnfjbpmd.7dp.Usenetspam011 at Odysseus.Zierke.com...
 > > Stephen Sprunk schrieb:
 > >> We also, unfortunately, ban pedestrians crossing the tracks
 > >> except at the usual corner crosswalks; it's $200 if they catch you.
 > >
 > > Try it in situations like this:
 > > http://www.tram-kassel.de/rtn/rtn_galerie/20070825-2/pic/c030557.jpg
 > > http://www.tram-kassel.de/rtn/rtn_galerie/20070825-2/pic/c030560.jpg
 > >
 > > You will be laughed upon, and it would quickly buy you a citizen's
 > > initiative for removing the streetcars out of the pedestrian zone...
 > > It's your customers on that picture, so you better be a friendly
 > > neighbour. It's exactly in this section, where you gain the big
 > > numbers for public transport!
 >
 > Duh? You're preaching to the choir here...
 >
 > >> I can see a street being pedestrian-friendly (with no crossing
 > >> restrictions) if there's only a few per hour, but a tram every two
 > >> minutes (as we have in our LRT system) in each direction means
 > >> there's not much time to cross safely unless the speeds are so
 > >> low as to be useless.
 > >
 > > The Karlsruhe drivers will tell you, that you should never travel 
below
 > > 15 km/h, even in a really crowded pedestrian area, because people will
 > > start to behave dangerously, if you do.
 >
 > Go much faster than that in a pedestrian zone and when you hit some 
idiot
 > who walks in front of the train, the jury will crucify you for being
 > "reckless". In fact, I'd go so far as to say we ban pedestrians on the
 > tracks not because it's unsafe but because they're (literally) walking
 > lawsuits waiting to happen.
 >
 > Our LRVs go 20-30mph through the street-running sections, though they 
don't
 > have signal preemption (to be fixed soon) so the average speed is much
 > lower.
 >
 > As an operator of a vintage streetcar, I can attest that pedestrians do
 > indeed behave as you claim. It's the car drivers you hit when you're 
going
 > fast; it's pedestrians you hit when you're going too slow. Humans, 
when not
 > distracted by driving, have remarkable instincts for avoiding getting
 > flattened by 20+ ton objects, particularly ones moving in a straight 
line at
 > a constant speed. Add track brakes and you shouldn't have any 
significant
 > problems with the peds.
 >
 > >> OTOH, you wouldn't need very low headways if there were several
 > >> such streets in the area, as opposed to a single trunk line like
 > >> most US LRT systems.
 > >
 > > City and city is different. The extreme situation in Karlsruhe is
 > > created by the fact, that a quite small area serves as both the CBD 
and
 > > shopping center for a city of 300 000, and that this street passes 
right
 > > through the middle of it. By running all lines along this street,
 > > Karlsruhe achieves > 50% transit modal share for the traffic between
 > > suburbia and the CBD. (For all traffic, figures are lower, but still
 > > good.)
 >
 > As a Merkin, my knee-jerk reaction to that would be to put a few of the
 > lines on parallel or crossing streets to make the CBD/shopping area 
larger,
 > bring in more tax money, and spread out the traffic.
 >
 > > So the main decision-guiding question should be, how important that
 > > pedestrian area is as a destination.
 >
 > In the US, pedestrian areas rarely exist except where they've been
 > artificially created by transit agencies in hopes of spurring the 
type of
 > development you're talking about. It rarely works, since transit 
agencies
 > aren't real estate experts (or often, for that matter, transit experts).
 >
 > S
 >
 > --
 > Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
 > CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
 > K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
 >

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^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^
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Jim  Holland
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Studying Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo)
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..............................From 1930 -- 1950
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Pennsylvania  Trolley  Museum  (PTM)
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http://www.pa-trolley.org/
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N.M.R.A.
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http://www.nmra.org/