[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh - think tank blasts possible new transit taxes

[Joshua Dunfield]

Bill Robb wrote:
> > What you fail to realize is that subsidies did not exist before the early 70s.

I responded:
> Really, why should urban mass transit make money?  Should we require that police
> departments break even (operationally)?  Should they charge user fees?
> ----------

Bill Robb wrote:
> I did not say transit should make money.  I said it should recover all its operating
> costs and not be a drain on the taxpayer.  You really cannot rationalize or set
> priorities.  Police, fire and ambulance are an essential service. There is no
> alternative to having effective emergency services. There are alternatives to transit.
> Walking,

Not practical for long distances.

> driving a car

Impossible for those who can't afford one, are too young, or have health problems
(for an extreme and obvious case: blindness).

>or taking a taxi.

Too expensive for everyday use, except for short distances.

You left out one of the more plausible alternatives, bicycling, but as with
driving (except more so) not everyone is physically able.

>  Conducting your affairs so not as much travel
> is needed.

For some folks, "conducting their affairs" that way would mean not going to work.
So here's the choice: give them a subsidized ride and recover the cost in income
tax, or make them lose their job.  Then you've lost the income tax revenue and
you'll get a drain on social services.  So then, which choice is a bigger "drain
on the taxpayer"?

> What's the percentage of users?  Normally its about 3% of trips, that means 97% are non-users.

That means no such thing.  Think about it.  You're saying that if you have 33
people, and 3% of all their trips are transit, "that means" only one ever rides
transit.  That's a completely nonsensical inference.  Some of those 33 will
never ride transit, some will take it for a majority of their trips, and some
will take it for a minority of their trips.  If you want to figure out how many
people ever ride transit, or ride it at least once a week, or once a day, you have
to ask them.  (Census long form, anyone?)

Personally, transit is a small minority of my trips -- I walk or bike most of
the time.  However, it's important for that small minority of trips.  You'd
count me as a small fraction of a transit user.

I wrote:
> I knew the TTC was going through a budget snafu, but I didn't know they
> were going through an existential crisis.  The "Transit City" plans don't
> look like an existential crisis to me.

Bill Robb wrote:
> http://www.toronto.ca/ttc/myttc.html#serviceatrisk
> 
> You are badly uninformed.

Thanks for the polite correction.

-j.