[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh - think tank blasts possible new transit taxes

[Edward H. Lybarger]

The independents supplied a lot of the management.

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of John
Swindler
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2007 1:54 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh - think tank blasts possible new transit
taxes



33 might have been the number of bus companies.  28 and 30 don't sound
right.  Wasn't there a bus company or two that were acquired couple years
later?  Something around the Bridgeville area?

When the Port Authority of Allegheny County went into the transit business,
who took over who?  The day to day work was generally filled by Pittsburgh
Railways employees, but where did top management come from?  PRC or the
independents????

John


>From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <trams2 at comcast.net>
>Reply-To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh - think tank blasts possible new transit
>taxes Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2007 20:47:28 -0400
>
>I think his name was Ezio Bigi, and that there were 30 independent bus
>companies, two inclined planes and PRCo.  I could go count 'em someday when
>there's lots of time.  The total was 33 companies...but is that exclusive
>of
>PRCo or inclusive?  The mind forgets after 42 years.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org]On Behalf Of Fred
>Schneider
>Sent: Monday, September 10, 2007 8:16 PM
>To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh - think tank blasts possible new transit
>taxes
>
>
>Most of the independent bus companies were established in the teens
>and twenties as jitney operators and they competed with Pittsburgh
>Railways.   The most often cited example, but far from the only one,
>was Trafford Coach Company, whose schedule was very simple.   Their
>drivers waited one block inbound from the end of the 62 Trafford car
>line and as soon as they saw the trolley begin to move, they pulled
>out ahead of it and ran to East Pittsburgh and on into Pittsburgh,
>syphoning off the trolley fares.
>
>There were 28 independent bus companies, that is to say independent
>of Pittsburgh Railways, that existed in Allegheny County in 1964.
>Most of them competed in one way or another with Pittsburgh
>Railways.   Oriole Motor Coach served the Carnegie Are.   Enrico Bigi
>ran into Mount Lebanon.  Deere Brothers ran out through Wilkinsburg
>and East Liberty to Penn Hills, competing with Pittsburgh Railways 78
>line.   Community Transit also competed with the 78 line.    After
>they were all merged into PAT there was a wonderful opportunity to
>rationalize the system.  Pittsburgh Railways routes could be extended
>over Bigi Routes or Oriole or Deere Brothers or McCoy or Ohio River
>routes but that isn't what happened.   All the old routes continued
>to run parallel to the old PRC routes.   To make matters worse, PAT
>took some shuttle or transfer routes that fed the trolley lines and
>extended them downtown in competition with their own trolley lines,
>thereby adding vehicle miles and reducing the number of passengers
>hauled per vehicle mile (and per paid driver mile).
>
>But remember, the object of government is to provide jobs and spend
>money.   It puts its hand in your pocket.   And you, by ignoring what
>it does, gives tacit approval.   Probably no developed nation on the
>planet has greater voter apathy than the United States.   Our
>government can do whatever they want.   We've told them so by not
>voting.
>
>On Sep 10, 2007, at 5:47 PM, Joshua Dunfield wrote:
>
> >
> > Derrick Brashear wrote:
> >> On Mon, 10 Sep 2007, Joshua Dunfield wrote:
> >
> >>> How about some specifics?  Wae all know Pittsburgh pretty well.
> >>> Tell
> >>> us which routes are obsolete.  You don't have to tell their riders,
> >>> of course...
> >>
> >> The problem is not necessarily one of "no riders there" but "the
> >> route
> >> serves people, who really wanted a different route to serve them"
> >>
> >> There's no good way to get from Highland Park to the Cardello
> >> Building,
> >> for instance. In fact, there's largely no good way to get to the
> >> Cardello
> >> Building. Yet it's an office building. A lot of people work there.
> >
> > Oh, sure, there's a need for *new* routes, but the original criticism,
> > as I understood it, was that the old routes are still there.
> > (Except, for example, the Drake line.  And I think the bus that
> > paralleled
> > it got cut in 2002.)
> >
> > Barring complete economic collapse and the End of Pittsburgh As We
> > Know It,
> > the 71A will continue to be a high-demand route partly because it
> > still
> > makes sense abstractly and partly because people expect it to be.
> >
> > But I don't see how making major cuts to the traditional route network
> > is going to help someone get from Highland Park to the Cardello
> > Building.
> > Or from UPMC St. Margaret's to Squirrel Hill, which I had to do a
> > few times.
> > (Took a while.  Involved the 91A.  91A isn't in remotely the right
> > direction,
> > you say?  Yeah, no kidding.)
> >
> > -j.
> >
>
>
>
>
>

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