[PRCo] Re: P-r-w, housing, cities, etc.

[Schneider Fred]

I'm replying to myself....

I'm trying to find as much as I can on line about Pittsburgh  
neighborhoods.

This Wikipedia article on Squirrel Hill is excellent because it  
traces the development of that part of the city.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squirrel_Hill

The Oakland article fails to disclose why there was so much land  
available for the University of Pittsburgh facility in 1930.   A huge  
country estate or mansion was torn down.   If I can remember or find  
out who it belonged to before I push send, I'll correct this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_(Pittsburgh)

The East Liberty article is subject to dispute over two things, race  
and the theme that urban renewal is bad.   In this case urban renewal  
probably was bad because the Americans did not want European-style  
urban renewal.   And race was an issue in East Liberty.   Sad to say  
but there isn't anything you can do about it.   History can be ugly  
but ignoring the ugliness doesn't make it any more beautiful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Liberty_(Pittsburgh)

Lets stop here.   Wikipedia has pages for almost every  
neighborhood.   Here is the link to the list page.  Click on those  
you want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_neighborhoods

Under the neighborhood list, it does correctly mention that Brookline  
was originally West Liberty Borough, but it doesn't go on to explain  
(like it does in the East Liberty section) that a liberty was free  
grazing land outside the city.   West Liberty Avenue was essentially  
Main Street in West Liberty.   That name remains.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Allegheny_(Pittsburgh)

In this link for East Allegheny ... look at the fourth house over  
with the mansared roof.  That design with an almost verticle slate  
face but with a dormer window was typical of the Victorian era ...  
1880s, 1890s, very early 1900s would be about end of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_North_(Pittsburgh)

If we call this Observatory Hill, that what did we call the old  
Observatory Hill?   I think we've forgotten history.  The Observatory  
Hill Passenger Railway only went up to the old Brashear Observatory  
on the campus of the University of Western Pennsylvania (the  
predecessor of University of Pittsbugh) which was about a half mile  
up Perrysville Avenue from Federal Street.   But that isn't the only  
mistake ... they also have the Castle Shannon incline closed by  
Pittsburgh Railways.


On Dec 10, 2008, at 5:06 PM, Schneider Fred wrote:

> Uh huh.   That's because the city was unsettled then.
>
> In 1700 the frontier was Philadelphia, Williamsburg, Boston,
> Charleston, Baltimore.
>
> In 1750 the frontier was Lancaster or Charlottesville.
>
> In 1800 Pittsburgh was indian territory.
>
> In the 1880s people were beginning to move up into what is now Perry
> Hilltop.   My grandmothers neighborhood by Riverview Park off of
> Perrysville Avenue was a Watson land development from the teens of
> 1920s.
>
> West View Park was built in 1906.   The land around it was developed
> in that period.   Nothing was there.
>
> The older homes in Brookline and Mount Lebanon and Dormont are
> largely teens, twenties, a few thirties, forties.
>
> Penn Hills?   After World War II Levittown in Bucks County was the
> fastest growing part of Pennsylvania and Penn Hills (Penn Township,
> Allegheny County) was second.   My parents bought two adjoining  1/4
> acre lots in Crescent Hills in 1937 and built a house on one of
> them.   Meadow Gold Dairy gave customers an aerial photograph of the
> neighborhood ... about one lot in six or seven was filled in by
> 1940.   The rest didn't fill in until the 1960s.    It's solid
> today.   But in the 1940s only the area around Black Ridge above
> Wilkinsburg was really filled in.
>
> Those perfectly symmetrical square brick houses that you see all over
> Allegheny County ... walk in the front door and the living room is
> either to the right or left, the dining room is on the other side
> with the kitchen behind it.   The stair case goes up from the front
> door. with three bedrooms and bath upstairs with the bath over the
> kitchen.      The basement had a single car garage under the
> kitchen.   They are purely late 1940s.   Memorize the design and you
> can see what filled in after the war.   Go up the hill from Linden
> Grove on the interurban and you will find that area filled with
> them.   That's where John Swindler's parents moved after leaving
> Edgewood.    A lot of homes in Penn Hills are like that ... the post
> war ones.
>
> If you local hysterical society has a person qualified to teach the
> basics of architectural history of housing, I would suggest that it
> is something any railfan interested in something more than just the
> trolley cars should attend.   Once you know the housing styles and
> when they were built, then you can tell what houses were there when
> the streetcar lines were there.   You tell which homes were there
> before the trolleys, which were build because of the convenience of
> the trolleys, which post dated the trolleys.   You will come to
> recognize trolley suburbs, bus suburbs.   You can take such a course
> in European universities but unfortunately it is very uncommon in the
> U. S. A.   However, I did find one offered by the Lancaster County
> Historical Society and you may equally lucky in your area.
>
> You can also, with greater effort, do some of it on your own just by
> working with maps.   If this street appears first on a 1922 map then
> none of the houses could be earlier than that.   If you have enough
> maps and enough street references and you look long and hard enough,
> you will become the expert.   Sears Roebuck used to sell houses in
> their catalogs.   Bear in mind that they were never ahead of the
> curve, always a little behind it.   So if you saw something in a 1915
> catalog, it was probably at the peak of its popularity a few years
> earlier.
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Barry, Matthew R wrote:
>
>> A lot more private right of way that I had previously thought.
>> Note where the line comes off of Woodlawn Ave, crosses Forbes and
>> goes into what is most probably private right of way.   It moves on
>> in to areas that I don't think any other carline really ever  
>> replaced.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> Derrick J Brashear
>> Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 4:07 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] old maps of Pittsburgh and elsewhere reveal...
>>
>> http://lnk.nu/images.library.pitt.edu/r8v
>>
>> note the location of the trolley line through Schenley Park (also the
>> inclines at the foot of S 21st St and the J&L Coal incline by S
>> 30th St.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>