[PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??

[John Swindler]

What documentation did the SEPTA motorman provide?  
 
John
> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 21:25:36 -0400> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > Who is Horwitz? I was told by SEPTA motorman during a visit in 1970 > that they were still employed out of Luzerne ... men who had gotten > tickets for infractions while driving and could not drive buses and > were protected.> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 8:58 PM, Bill Robb wrote:> > > The last day of Philadelphia conductors was Feb 12, 1965 per > > Philadelphia railfan David Horwitz.> > "The last day of two man trolleys in Phila.> > was February 12, 1965. The remaining conductors, all of whom by 1965> > were former operators disqualified for medical reasons, were give two> > choices. With their seniority, they could become cashiers on the> > subway/El system or work as center door loaders at major transfer> > points on the Luzerne rail lines. E.g, K&A, K & Torresdale or Broad &> > Olney doing the 6 car. The majority took the loading option."> >> >> > Fred Schneider wrote:> >> > PTC had conductors until SEPTA took over and SEPTA still had them> > into the early 1970s. They floated around different Luzerne routes> > depending on which one could use the number that they still had. I> > think route 53 was the last line to have them.> >> > I know that 13 and 42 had conductors in the early 1940s. The> > distinction between the number of PCCs in Philadelphia was staffing:> > 2000 up to 2290 were one-man cars, 2500-2800 were two-man cars as> > built. So notice that the 2500s were on 13 and 42 back in 1940 ...> > they were definitely two-man lines. And the 2701-2800 group were> > bought as two-man cars for Germantown-10th and Bigler but I think the> > line was rapidly converted to one-man and the cars were changed.> >> > I can remember a lot of two-man 8000s and Nearside cars in the> > 1950s. I think that route 2 was two-man the last time I rode it.> > Route 47 or 50 might have been back in 1953.> >> > And how do you count the subway-surface lines. They have always> > been pay enter outbound and pay leave inbound so that people getting> > off in the city paid at turnstiles and cashiers booths. Probably 60> > to 75 percent of the patrons on routes 10, 13 (after it was routed> > into the subway), 34, 36, and 37 paid their fares in the city. I> > would hesitate to make such an assertion about 38 because many of its> > patrons were going to one destination at the outer end ... either the> > Fairmount Park trolleys or working at the Pennsylvania Railroad> > engine house at 46th Street. So overall, maybe two-thirds of the> > patrons of those lines paid their fares to someone other than a> > motorman and still do to this day.> >> > Yeah, guys, it isn't Pittsburgh but it's still in Pennsylvania.> >> > On Jun 21, 2008, at 5:48 PM, John Swindler wrote:> >> >>> >> What about two man cars on route 53? Without digging out old> >> issues of Headlights, didn't PTC still have some conductors on the> >> payroll into the 50s - and maybe even 60s. The dwindling number of> >> conductors would be assigned different routes based more on how> >> many were still employed rather then actual need. This is just> >> vague recollection very much open to needed correction.> >>> >> John> >>> >>> >>> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:45:40 -0400> From: allmanr at verizon.net>> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> To: pittsburgh-> >>> railways at dementia.org> > Fred-not sure anyone would want the inch> >>> by inch narrative for Liberty Bell > line, thoough if there's any> >>> hue and outcry, I'll do it. Two man operation > in PA after 1951?> >>> Red Arrow Center Entrance cars and some West Chester rush > hour> >>> service as well carried a conductor, sitting right behind the> >>> motorman > on the drop seat. RICH> ----- Original Message ----- >> >>> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>> To: <pittsburgh-> >>> railways at dementia.org>> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:54 AM>> >>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> > > > The one titled> >>> Philadelphia with the red cars is not properly> > labeled. It is> >>> entirely Lehigh Valley Transit Company's> > Philadelphia Division> >>> circa 1950-1951. I recognized a lot of the> > locations but> >>> nothing, of course is in Philadelphia because after> > 1926 the> >>> company never entered!> >> the city of Philadelphia and after> > 1949 the cars did not run> >> south of Norristown. I saw pictures on> > the South Allentown> >> viaduct over the Reading Company ... they may be> > the northern> >> most pictures. Rich Allman could easily give us a> > minute by> >> minute diatribe on that film.> >> > The one titled Reading shows> >> the last remaining line of Reading> > Street Railway. For those> >> unfamiliar, most of the suburban routes> > were shut down in the> >> 1920s and 1930s owing to the usual lack of> > riders and too many> >> automobiles out on the farms. I think the Oley> > Valley Division> >> from Boyertown west toward Reading may have been the> > first> >> casualty about 1926. Birdsboro quit about 1932. The RSR line> > to> >> Adamstown in Lancaster County lasted until 1933, one year after> >> >> the connecting cars to Lancaster expired. The Lebanon Division was>> >>> gone in 1931. The Norristown operations were eradicated by> >> 1933 ...> > that's SEPTA's Frontier Division today. And most of the> >> city of> > Rea!> >> ding was replaced by buses in 1947. However, one route, from> >> >> Readin> >> g to Shillington and Mohnton remained because the company was> >> >> seemingly unable to break the 999-year lease with the Reading and>> >>> Southwestern Street Railway. The courts finally ruled in favor> >> of> > Reading Street Railway and the last poles were hooked down in> >> January> > 1952. All of that line was street running in the City of> >> Reading and> > in the Borough of Shillington. There was a short> >> portion of side of> > the road operation in Cumru Township, Berks> >> County, between Reading> > and Shillington, and it is illustrated> >> briefly. But most of the> > private right of way you see in the> >> Reading film is between the south> > borough line of Shillington> >> and the town of Mohntown. Every other> > car ran beyond 16th St.,> >> Shillington to Mohnton ... about every 20> > minutes as I recall.> >> Today I think it is 30 minutes to Shillington> > and hourly to> >> Mohnton in spite of a population three times larger> > than when> >> the trolleys ran!> >> > Now I'll ask one question. Don't you find> >> it st!> >> range that Reading> > was running those cars with two-man crews in> >> 1951? Outside of> > Philadelphia, it was probably the last> >> operation with two-men in> > Pennsylvania and without any doubt in> >> my mind, the last two-man cars> > in a small city anywhere in the> >> United States.> >> > Oh, the one quick snap of a steam train at the> >> start of the Reading> > flick... that was at 7th and Penn. Penn> >> Street was the main business> > drag ... t'aint no mo. Seventh> >> Street was the mainline of the> > Reading Railroad from> >> Philadelphia to Reading. All of those> > buildings were torn down> >> in one of those ill-conceived urban ruinall> > schemes a few years> >> back. My last assignment with the state of> > Pennshylvania was at> >> an address called 625 Cherry Street in> > Reading ... the state> >> office building ... which was a brand new> > building in the> >> eastern half of the block surrounded by 6th, Penn,> > 7th, and> >> Cherry. It butted right up against the railroad. But by> > the time> >> I got there, Conrail h!> >> ad decided it wasn't going to run> > passenger trains on the old> >> Readi> >> ng that were not subsidized, and> > SEPTA made an offer to Berks> >> County to continue the service and Berks> > refused to pay saying> >> it would help Philadelphia. So across the> > street from me was the> >> deserted old Franklin Street Station.> >> > You should see the> >> traffic coming in from Reading every day on the> > Turnpike and on> >> US 422.> >> > Thanks Jerry for letting me see the Reading film.> >> Brought back a> > lot of memories. Just after we moved from> >> Pittsburgh, that was> > briefly where we would go on Saturdays> >> afternoons to shop. Was only> > 25 miles from the house we rented> >> until we bought a place. I> > remember the Mohnton Streetcars. I> >> also remember steam on the> > Shamokin - Tamaqua - Reading -> >> Philadelphia passenger trains and on> > the Jersey City - Reading -> >> Harrisburg trains. Even remember pooled> > CNJ Pacifics on the> >> Harrisburg service. Had we been there just one> > year earlier,> >> there would still have been a Lancaster - Reading -> > Birdsboro -> >> Coatesville gas car!> >> .> >> >> > On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Jerry MATT Matsick wrote:>> >>>>>> Ed, Fred, Derrick - Is this in fact a film on the West Penn ?> >>>>> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGHcHeZwrw> >> --> >> From the> >> RIVER CITY by the Sea!> >> Jerry "Matt" Matsick> >> J A C K S O N V> >> I L L E, Florida !> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >> >> _________________________________________________________________> >> The i¢m Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves.> >> http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst> >>> >> >> >> >> > > 
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The i’m Talkathon starts 6/24/08.  For now, give amongst yourselves.
http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst