[PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??

Sun Jun 22 00:14:52 EDT 2008

This is really going to change the subject, Rich, but Ed Lybarger asked about some state highway county maps, and the following link might be of interest.  Includes some county maps circa 1915 that show streetcar rights of way.

http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bureaus/pdPlanRes.nsf/infoBPRCartoMapsinPDFandDJVU?OpenForm

It will probably load very slowly, but is guanenteed to keep several on this list up very late tonight.  (:>)

cheers
John

> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:54:32 -0400> From: allmanr at verizon.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > vague, John? that's what I do best!> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:41 PM> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> > > >> >> > Actually, Rich, I was rather depending on memory of the East Penn group to > > correct my vague impression. The vague recollection is comment about > > conductors being taken off of one route, and placed on 53 due to decline > > in number of conductors needing jobs. My guess is that it was something > > in Headlights late 1950s, or early 1960s, but very unsure of time frame, > > details and source. It was more a question being asked rather then > > statement of fact.> >> > did I mention that this is all very "vague"? (:>)> >> > John> >> >> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:42:47 -0400> From: allmanr at verizon.net> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> To: > >> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > John-as a small kid in early 1950's > >> vaguely rememeber conductors on Route 13 > and 42 on Chestnut and Walnut > >> Streets; 53? if you say so, since you do your > homework more than I do, > >> though think about it, even by 1950's that was a > less heavy route than > >> many others. 53 was the route that was the testing > ground for first > >> PCC's, Brilliners, etc. RICH> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John > >> Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>> To: > >> <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:48 > >> PM> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> > > >> > What about two > >> man cars on route 53? Without digging out old issues of > > Headlights, > >> didn't PTC still have some conductors on the payroll into the > > 50s - > >> and maybe even 60s. The dwindling number of conductors would be > > > >> assigned different routes based more on how !> > many were still employed > > rather then actual need. This is just vague > > recollection very much open > > to needed correction.> >> > John> >> >> >> > > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:45:40 -0400> From: allmanr at verizon.net> > >> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> To: > >> > > pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > Fred-not sure anyone would want the > > > >> inch by inch narrative for Liberty Bell > line, thoough if there's any > > > >> hue and outcry, I'll do it. Two man operation > in PA after 1951? Red > > > >> Arrow Center Entrance cars and some West Chester rush > hour service > > as > >> well carried a conductor, sitting right behind the motorman > on > > the drop > >> seat. RICH> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred > > Schneider" > >> <fwschneider at comcast.net>> To: > > <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>> Sent: > >> Saturday, June 21, 2008 > > 11:54 AM> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street > >> Car??> > > > The one > > titled Philadelphia with the red cars is not > >> properly> > labeled. It > > is entirely !> > Lehigh Valley Transit Company's> > > >> Philadelphia Division circa 19> > 50-1951. I recognized a lot of the> > > >> locations but nothing, of > > course is in Philadelphia because after> > 1926 > >> the company never > > entered!> > the city of Philadelphia and after> > 1949 the cars did not > > run south of > > Norristown. I saw pictures on> > the South Allentown > > viaduct over the > > Reading Company ... they may be> > the northern most > > pictures. Rich Allman > > could easily give us a> > minute by minute > > diatribe on that film.> >> > > > The one titled Reading shows the last > > remaining line of Reading> > Street > > Railway. For those unfamiliar, > > most of the suburban routes> > were shut > > down in the 1920s and 1930s > > owing to the usual lack of> > riders and too > > many automobiles out on > > the farms. I think the Oley> > Valley Division > > from Boyertown west > > toward Reading may have been the> > first casualty > > about 1926. > > Birdsboro quit about 1932. The RSR line> > to Adamstown in > > Lancaster > > County lasted until 1933, one year after> > the connecting cars >!> > > to Lancaster expired. The Lebanon Division was> > gone in 1931. The > > > > Norristown operations were eradicated by 1933 ...> > that's SEPTA's > > > > Frontier Division today. And most of the city of> > Rea!> > ding was > > replaced by buses in 1947. However, one route, from> > Readin> > g to > > Shillington and Mohnton remained because the company was> > seemingly > > > > unable to break the 999-year lease with the Reading and> > Southwestern > > > > Street Railway. The courts finally ruled in favor of> > Reading Street > > > > Railway and the last poles were hooked down in January> > 1952. All of > > > > that line was street running in the City of Reading and> > in the > > Borough > > of Shillington. There was a short portion of side of> > the > > road operation > > in Cumru Township, Berks County, between Reading> > and > > Shillington, and > > it is illustrated briefly. But most of the> > private > > right of way you see > > in the Reading film is between the south> > > > borough line of Shillington > > and the town !> > of Mohntown. Every other> > car ran beyond 16th St., > > Shillington t> > o Mohnton ... about every 20> > minutes as I recall. Today I > > think it > > is 30 minutes to Shillington> > and hourly to Mohnton in spite of > > a > > population three times larger> > than when the trolleys ran!> >> > Now > > > > I'll ask one question. Don't you find it st!> > range that Reading> > was > > running those cars with two-man crews in 1951? > > Outside of> > > > Philadelphia, it was probably the last operation with > > two-men in> > > > Pennsylvania and without any doubt in my mind, the last > > two-man cars> > > > in a small city anywhere in the United States.> >> > Oh, > > the one > > quick snap of a steam train at the start of the Reading> > > > flick... > > that was at 7th and Penn. Penn Street was the main business> > > > drag > > ... t'aint no mo. Seventh Street was the mainline of the> > Reading > > > > Railroad from Philadelphia to Reading. All of those> > buildings were torn > > > > down in one of those ill-conceived urban ruinall> > schemes a few > > years > > back. My last assignment with the state o!> > f> > Pennshylvania was at an > > address called 625 Cherry Street in> > > > Reading ... the state office > > building ... which was a brand new> > > > building in the eastern half of the > > block surrounded by 6th, Penn,> > > > 7th, and Cherry. It butted right up > > against the railroad. But by> > > > the time I got there, Conrail h!> > ad decided it wasn't going to run> > > > passenger trains on the old Readi> > ng that were not subsidized, and> > > > SEPTA made an offer to Berks County to > > continue the service and Berks> > > > refused to pay saying it would help > > Philadelphia. So across the> > > > street from me was the deserted old > > Franklin Street Station.> >> > You > > should see the traffic coming in from > > Reading every day on the> > > > Turnpike and on US 422.> >> > Thanks Jerry for > > letting me see the > > Reading film. Brought back a> > lot of memories. Just > > after we moved > > from Pittsburgh, that was> > briefly where we would go on > > Saturdays > > afternoons to shop. Was only> > 25 miles from!> > the house we > > rented until we bought a place. I> > remember the Mo> > hnton Streetcars. I > > also remember steam on the> > Shamokin - Tamaqua - > > Reading - Philadelphia > > passenger trains and on> > the Jersey City - > > Reading - Harrisburg trains. > > Even remember pooled> > CNJ Pacifics on > > the Harrisburg service. Had we > > been there just one> > year earlier, > > there would still have been a > > Lancaster - Reading -> > Birdsboro - > > Coatesville gas car!> > .> >> >> > On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Jerry MATT > > Matsick wrote:> >> >> > > Ed, Fred, Derrick - Is this in fact a film on > > the West Penn ?> >> > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGHcHeZwrw> >> --> > > >> From the RIVER CITY > > by the Sea!> >> Jerry "Matt" Matsick> >> J A C > > K S O N V I L L E, Florida > > !> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >> > > > _________________________________________________________________> > The > > i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves.> > > > http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst> >> > > > > >> > _________________________________________________________________> > The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. Check out the i'm Talkathon.> > http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_SeasonOfGiving> >> > > > 
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