[PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??

[John Swindler]

Likewise.  
 
Includes some of the old maps missing from the state library map room, such as Dauphin and Cumberland Counties.
 
John
 
> From: trams2 at comcast.net> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:37:57 -0400> > I had no trouble downloading from this site in an expeditious manner. Now> all I need is time to look at the site in detail. > > -----Original Message-----> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of John> Swindler> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 12:15 AM> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> > > This is really going to change the subject, Rich, but Ed Lybarger asked> about some state highway county maps, and the following link might be of> interest. Includes some county maps circa 1915 that show streetcar rights> of way.> > http://www.dot.state.pa.us/Internet/Bureaus/pdPlanRes.nsf/infoBPRCartoMapsin> PDFandDJVU?OpenForm> > It will probably load very slowly, but is guanenteed to keep several on this> list up very late tonight. (:>)> > cheers> John> > > > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:54:32 -0400> From: allmanr at verizon.net> Subject:> [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> >> vague, John? that's what I do best!> ----- Original Message ----- > From:> "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>> To:> <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 11:41 PM>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> > > >> >> > Actually, Rich, I> was rather depending on memory of the East Penn group to > > correct my> vague impression. The vague recollection is comment about > > conductors> being taken off of one route, and placed on 53 due to decline > > in number> of conductors needing jobs. My guess is that it was something > > in> Headlights late 1950s, or early 1960s, but very unsure of time frame, > >> details and source. It was more a question being asked rather then > >> statement of fact.> >> > did I mention that this is all very "vague"? (:>)>> >> > John> >> >> Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:42:47 -0400> !> From: allmanr at verizon.net> > >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??>> To: > >> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > John-as a small kid in early> 1950's > >> vaguely rememeber conductors on Route 13 > and 42 on Chestnut> and Walnut > >> Streets; 53? if you say so, since you do your > homework> more than I do, > >> though think about it, even by 1950's that was a > less> heavy route than > >> many others. 53 was the route that was the testing >> ground for first > >> PCC's, Brilliners, etc. RICH> ----- Original Message> ----- > From: "John > >> Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>> To: > >>> <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 5:48 > >>> PM> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn Street Car??> > > >> > What about two > >>> man cars on route 53? Without digging out old issues of > > Headlights, > >>> didn't PTC still have some conductors on the payroll into the > > 50s - > >>> and maybe even 60s. The dwindling number of conductors would be > > > >>> assigned diffe!> rent routes based more on how !> > many were still employed > > rather> then actual need. This is just vague > > recollection very much open > > to> needed correction.> >> > John> >> >> >> > > Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2008 16:45:40> -0400> From: allmanr at verizon.net> > >> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn> Street Car??> To: > >> > > pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > Fred-not sure> anyone would want the > > > >> inch by inch narrative for Liberty Bell >> line, thoough if there's any > > > >> hue and outcry, I'll do it. Two man> operation > in PA after 1951? Red > > > >> Arrow Center Entrance cars and> some West Chester rush > hour service > > as > >> well carried a conductor,> sitting right behind the motorman > on > > the drop > >> seat. RICH> -----> Original Message ----- > From: "Fred > > Schneider" > >>> <fwschneider at comcast.net>> To: > > <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>> Sent:> > >> Saturday, June 21, 2008 > > 11:54 AM> Subject: [PRCo] Re: West Penn> Street > >> Car??> > > > The one > > titled Philadelphia with the red cars> is not > >> properly> > labeled.!> It > > is entirely !> > Lehigh Valley Transit Company's> > > >>> Philadelphia Division circa 19> > 50-1951. I recognized a lot of the> > > >>> locations but nothing, of > > course is in Philadelphia because after> >> 1926 > >> the company never > > entered!> > the city of Philadelphia and> after> > 1949 the cars did not > > run south of > > Norristown. I saw> pictures on> > the South Allentown > > viaduct over the > > Reading Company> ... they may be> > the northern most > > pictures. Rich Allman > > could> easily give us a> > minute by minute > > diatribe on that film.> >> > > >> The one titled Reading shows the last > > remaining line of Reading> >> Street > > Railway. For those unfamiliar, > > most of the suburban routes> >> were shut > > down in the 1920s and 1930s > > owing to the usual lack of> >> riders and too > > many automobiles out on > > the farms. I think the Oley>> > Valley Division > > from Boyertown west > > toward Reading may have been> the> > first casualty > > about !> 1926. > > Birdsboro quit about 1932. The RSR line> > to Adamstown in > >> Lancaster > > County lasted until 1933, one year after> > the connecting> cars >!> > > to Lancaster expired. The Lebanon Division was> > gone in 1931.> The > > > > Norristown operations were eradicated by 1933 ...> > that's> SEPTA's > > > > Frontier Division today. And most of the city of> > Rea!> >> ding was > > replaced by buses in 1947. However, one route, from> > Readin>> > g to > > Shillington and Mohnton remained because the company was> >> seemingly > > > > unable to break the 999-year lease with the Reading and> >> Southwestern > > > > Street Railway. The courts finally ruled in favor of> >> Reading Street > > > > Railway and the last poles were hooked down in> January> > 1952. All of > > > > that line was street running in the City of> Reading and> > in the > > Borough > > of Shillington. There was a short> portion of side of> > the > > road operation > > in Cumru Township, Berks> County, between Reading> > and > > Shillington, and > > it is illustrated> briefly. But most of !> the> > private > > right of way you see > > in the Reading film is between> the south> > > > borough line of Shillington > > and the town !> > of> Mohntown. Every other> > car ran beyond 16th St., > > Shillington t> > o> Mohnton ... about every 20> > minutes as I recall. Today I > > think it > >> is 30 minutes to Shillington> > and hourly to Mohnton in spite of > > a > >> population three times larger> > than when the trolleys ran!> >> > Now > > >> > I'll ask one question. Don't you find it st!> > range that Reading> > was> > > running those cars with two-man crews in 1951? > > Outside of> > > >> Philadelphia, it was probably the last operation with > > two-men in> > > >> Pennsylvania and without any doubt in my mind, the last > > two-man cars> >> > > in a small city anywhere in the United States.> >> > Oh, > > the one > >> quick snap of a steam train at the start of the Reading> > > > flick... > >> that was at 7th and Penn. Penn Street was the main business> > > > drag > >> ... t'aint !> no mo. Seventh Street was the mainline of the> > Reading > > > > Railr oad> from Philadelphia to Reading. All of those> > buildings were torn > > > >> down in one of those ill-conceived urban ruinall> > schemes a few > > years> > > back. My last assignment with the state o!> > f> > Pennshylvania was at> an > > address called 625 Cherry Street in> > > > Reading ... the state> office > > building ... which was a brand new> > > > building in the eastern> half of the > > block surrounded by 6th, Penn,> > > > 7th, and Cherry. It> butted right up > > against the railroad. But by> > > > the time I got> there, Conrail h!> > ad decided it wasn't going to run> > > > passenger> trains on the old Readi> > ng that were not subsidized, and> > > > SEPTA> made an offer to Berks County to > > continue the service and Berks> > > >> refused to pay saying it would help > > Philadelphia. So across the> > > >> street from me was the deserted old > > Franklin Street Station.> >> > You >> > should see the traffic coming in from > > Reading every day on the> > > >> Turnpike and on U!> S 422.> >> > Thanks Jerry for > > letting me see the > > Reading film.> Brought back a> > lot of memories. Just > > after we moved > > from> Pittsburgh, that was> > briefly where we would go on > > Saturdays > >> afternoons to shop. Was only> > 25 miles from!> > the house we > > rented> until we bought a place. I> > remember the Mo> > hnton Streetcars. I > >> also remember steam on the> > Shamokin - Tamaqua - > > Reading -> Philadelphia > > passenger trains and on> > the Jersey City - > > Reading -> Harrisburg trains. > > Even remember pooled> > CNJ Pacifics on > > the> Harrisburg service. Had we > > been there just one> > year earlier, > >> there would still have been a > > Lancaster - Reading -> > Birdsboro - > >> Coatesville gas car!> > .> >> >> > On Jun 20, 2008, at 7:30 PM, Jerry MATT >> > Matsick wrote:> >> >> > > Ed, Fred, Derrick - Is this in fact a film on >> > the West Penn ?> >> > > http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eIGHcHeZwrw> >> -->> > > >> From the RIVER CITY > > by the Sea!>!> >> Jerry "Matt" Matsick> >> J A C > > K S O N V I L L E, Florida > > !>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >> > > >> _________________________________________________________________> > The > >> i'm Talkathon starts 6/24/08. For now, give amongst yourselves.> > > >> http://www.imtalkathon.com?source=TXT_EML_WLH_LearnMore_GiveAmongst> >> > >> > > >> > _________________________________________________________________>> > The other season of giving begins 6/24/08. 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