[PRCo] Re: First PAYE Cars

Mon Jun 30 15:41:41 EDT 2008

Correct on both counts, John.  The 3400s, 3500s, 4000s and 4100s were  
PAYE at the rear.   The Philly, Buffalo, Chicago and Atlantic City  
Nearside cars were PAYE at the front with the conductor stationed  
immediately behind the motorman.  But all of these were pass as you  
pass schemes as opposed to the initial method of collection copied  
from the railroads where the conductor approached the seated  
passenger and the passenger prayed he or she would be missed.

I didn't mean to start a discussion on 22/85.  I only implied that  
collection was pay as you enter on 85 during the period when they  
were combined.

On Jun 30, 2008, at 2:08 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
>> fwschneider mentioned:
>>> PAYE refers to pay as you pass the conductor when you got on the  
>>> car > as opposed to the previous system wherein you first sat  
>>> down, hid > behind your newspaper, and prayed that the condutor  
>>> didn't recognized > that you had not paid.
>
> PAYE means Pay As You Enter, Not Pay as you pass the conductor.   
> And this depends on where the conductor is located.  A "Peter Witt"  
> type fare collection, where the conductor is near the center door,  
> would be Pay as you pass the conductor.  The front half of the car  
> is where the unpaid passengers are "stored" until the conductor  
> collects their fare, either as they exit at the center door or move  
> to a seat in rear of car.
>
> At this early PRC date, PAYE probably refers to paying the  
> conductor on the rear platform as passenger enters the car.
>
>> In the earlier scheme of things, the > conductor came around the  
>> car collecting from passengers after they > were seated. The idea  
>> behind PAYE was to collect all those fares > that were missed  
>> because people were telling the conductor, "Don't > you remember,  
>> you already got my fare?"> > The route cards do not record when  
>> PRC went to pay leave outbound and > pay leave inbound. They only  
>> record when they went the first route > went to PAYE, when each  
>> route went from two-man to one-man (1926-1937
>
>
> It was pay enter inbound, and pay leave outbound.  And I think  
> there was a time when 22 and 85 were through-routed, which might be  
> the occasion for mentioning fare payment in the route cards.  They  
> would not have been the norm within the CBD.
>
> The reason was to reduce congestion within the central business  
> district.
>
>> but very few were converted after 1933), and they did record that  
>> 22 > CROSSTOWN or 85 BEDFORD-CROSSTOWN was converted to pay enter  
>> in both > directions. The reason behind that was that under the  
>> pay enter in/ > pay leave out scheme there were a lot of people  
>> who got on cars and > rode across downtown free. Since 22 or 22/85  
>> was only a downtown > route, it was converted to pay enter to make  
>> sure they got their money. > But the company did not record when  
>> they went to pay enter inbound / > pay enter outbound on the route  
>> cards. Logically it would have been > sometime around the  
>> conversion to one-man. It would not have not > worked well with  
>> cars like the 3400s after conversion to rear > entrance), the  
>> 3500s, the 4000s or the 4100s, all of which were rear > entrance,  
>> front exit cars. The operative word is WELL. No one left > to ask  
>> who rode them in the 1920s.>
>
>
> Don't have to ask someone who rode them in the 1920s.  PRC did not  
> record when went to pay enter inbound/pay enter outbound on route  
> cards because PRC never went to this type fare collection.  PRC  
> eventually went to pay in the suburbs (which should not be quoted  
> as is a made up term)
>
>> On Jun 27, 2008, at 4:30 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:> > >  
>> Mr.Swindler!> >> >> > Is PAYE also Pay As You Exit or is it  
>> strictly Enter? When did PRC > > go to pay exiting outbound?> >>  
>> >> > Phil> >> >> >> >> > ----- Original Message ----> >> From:  
>> John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>> >> To: pittsburgh- 
>> railways at dementia.org> >> Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 5:36:13 AM>  
>> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: First PAYE Cars> >>> >>> >> Then why do we  
>> have a list dealing with ancient history that > >> doesn't  
>> matter???> >> (:>)> >>> >> Then again, my wife does make some  
>> occasional critical comments > >> about spending> >> time in the  
>> past.> >>> >> From another post, route 77 was originally a  
>> Wilkinsburg route via > >> Fifth (?)> >> Also, do you have a route  
>> 79 schedule from the 1960s? I think PRC > >> schedule> >>  
>> department may have used that number for Stadium-Forbes Field > >>  
>> service.> >>> >> And I like that comment from the Sunday Parade.  
>> Thanks. It's a > >> keeper.> >>> >> John> >!
>>>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: First PAYE  
>>>>>> > >>> Cars> Date: Thu,> >> 26 Jun 2008 16:42:00 -0400> To:  
>>>>>> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > >> > Or something> >> like  
>>>>>> that. It's ancient history. Does not matter. > Can't catch >  
>>>>>> >> the car today.>> >>> Did you see the Sunday Parade  
>>>>>> magazine? "Going to the future > > >>> without knowing> >>  
>>>>>> history is like trying to plant cut flowers."> > On Jun 26,  
>>>>>> 2008, > >> at 3:58 PM,> >> John Swindler wrote:> > >> >> > 79  
>>>>>> Forbes Shady Penn> > 91 Penn > >> Shady Forbes> >>> >>> 72  
>>>>>> Bloomfield via Forbes> > 92 Bloomfield via Penn> >> >> From:>  
>>>>>> >> j_swindler at hotmail.com> To: pittsburgh- > >> > >>  
>>>>>> railways at dementia.org> Subject:> >> [PRCo] Re: First PAYE  
>>>>>> Cars> Date: > >> Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:12:42 > >> -0400> > >> >>  
>>>>>> Wasn't 99, but having a > >> senior moment. Will check.> >  
>>>>>> John> > > >> From: > >>> >> fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject:  
>>>>>> [PRCo] Re: First PAYE Cars> > >> > >> Date: Thu, 26> >> Jun  
>>>>>> 2008 14:54:42 -0400> To: !
>  pittsburgh- > >> > >> railways at dementia.org> > Suspect> >> it was  
> both
>
>  79 and 99. But all > >> the details ar!> >> e missing for > the  
> counter clockwise outside loop. > >> It is not > >> logical that>  
> >> one > direction would have PAYE cars and > >> the other would >  
> >> not.> > On Jun 25,> >> 2008, at 8:30 PM, John Swindler > >>  
> wrote:> > >> > Was that the > >> clockwise or> >> counterclockwise  
> loop, > >> and if both loops, > > the other route > >> number is>  
> >> missing.> >> > > >> Just checking> >> > John> >> To:> >>  
> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > >> From: > >> > >>  
> fwschneider at comcast.net>> >> Subject: [PRCo] First PAYE > >> Cars>  
> Date: > >> Wed, 25 Jun 2008 > >> 20:26:55> >> -0400> > First > >>  
> Pittsburgh Railways line > >> to have PAYE > >> cars? The Inside>  
> >> and > > >> Outside Loop!> > Lines which ran > >> on Shady, Penn,  
> > >> Cecil Alley,> >> and Fifth > > > Avenue. In 1914 this was > >>  
> route 79.> > They > >> received Pay As> >> You > > Enter cars in  
> October 1908, > >> probably the > brand new > >> 3500s. > >> >>  
> This was the f!>!
>   irst time you walked > >> past the > conductor > >> and > > paid  
> a> >> fare instead of the conductor > >> coming to you.>> > > > >  
> >> _________________!> >>  
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