[PRCo] Re: 3800 Series LOST

Wed May 7 14:09:20 EDT 2008

This is for Ken.

Most of you have read it before.

When M-11 was retired, PERC was a fantrip club.

I know I have posted this opinion before.   It is probably just as  
well that it got away.   It was a bucket of rust and 1138 was in much  
better condition.   They are so similar as to make hardly worth the  
effort to preserve.   Cars 100, 1000-1099 and 1100-1199 are very  
similar to each other.  The real differences came with the 1200s and  
their air release, spring applied brakes and the longer trolley cowl  
and full width anti-climbers.

I was told that the accelerator was moved inside the car.   Boris, in  
an earlier post, said he believed it was a dummy because they would  
have changed the ventilation system.   I didn't respond to his  
earlier comment on that.   I suspect that they did change the  
ventilation system.   If we had that car, we would have to redesign  
it back to its original configuration, which in 1961 was beyond the  
staff capabilities although not so today.

Remember the point in my earlier post today ... the public doesn't  
know the difference.   It is a red and cream car.  PERIOD.   We have  
1799 (nee 1613), 1467 and 1138.  All are red and cream Pittsburgh air- 
cars.   How do you expect the public to know that there is any  
difference unless you take 1467 and paint it with the Help Pa Pitt  
Clean Up Pittsburgh advertising paint scheme?   As far as the  
differences between 1138 and 1613, the public won't know and if you  
tell them, they will be asleep when you finish.

fws

On May 7, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Ken & Tracie wrote:

> Was any thought given to buying  that first PCC which was scrapped  
> in '68 or
> so. The one that became a training car? I hear it was pretty rough  
> at the
> end, but some saw it as being historically significant.
>
> When Milwaukee ended their electric transit era in 1965, some  
> thought was
> given to preserving the last scheduled trackless trolley, Marmon- 
> Herrington
> 428. The story goes that IRM looked it over, along with a number of  
> other
> M-H coaches and chose 441, as it was in better overall condition.
>
> 428 wound up in Mexico City, received a needed complete overhaul and
> returned to service there for nearly another twenty years.
>
> I rode unrestored 441 at Union eight years ago. It rode along  
> smoothly, with
> no noticeable squeaks or rattles.
>
> IRM made a wise choice.
>
> K.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Edward H. Lybarger" <trams2 at comcast.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 6:29 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 3800 Series LOST
>
>
>> Brown and Scanlon (and maybe a third person) bought 3756.  Bowker  
>> paid for
>> 1138.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf  
>> Of Fred
>> Schneider
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 8:41 AM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 3800 Series LOST
>>
>> If memory serves, Bob Brown paid for 3756.
>>
>> On May 7, 2008, at 8:38 AM, John Swindler wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Herb
>>>
>>> Perhaps it was not a favorite car series with someone with deep
>>> pockets?  And it was a single end car.
>>>
>>> If that was a consideration, and I would not be surprised if that  
>>> was
>>> (maybe we need to ask Art Ellis) it is remarkable that 1138 was  
>>> saved.
>>> But with 1138, it might have been viewed as an opportunity to save a
>>> PCC before a public authority took over.  And PRC, at that point,
>>> might have been willing to give PTM/PRMA/PERC the benefit of the  
>>> doubt
>>> and quote an attractive price.  Just guessing.
>>>
>>> I was surprised at how few the membership was in the 1950s.  At that
>>> time, the museum concept was in competition with those who's  
>>> focus was
>>> taking pictures of fantrip cars.  As others have said, just be
>>> thankful for what did get saved.
>>>
>>> Suspect there was too much scrap value in a 3800 and WP 700s to be
>>> affordable. After all, wasn't the typical wage then around a buck an
>>> hour, or about $2,000 per year???
>>> Even 3756 barely made it to Arden.  Wasn't it a last minute
>>> acquisition by an individual???
>>>
>>> There is a lot of speculation above that others more knowledgeable
>>> should comment on.
>>>
>>> John> Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 22:28:35 -0700> From:
>>> hrbran at sbcglobal.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 3800 Series LOST> To:
>>> pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > So how does this explain why PTM
>>> did not save a 3800 ??????> Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> wrote: It would cost money to buy, money to move, it doesn't fit  
>>> in >
>>> everyone's back yard, and the neighbors don't particularly like  
>>> such >
>>> toys in your back yard.> > About 25 years ago Dave Hamley was
>>> projecting slides for my > edification and enjoyment. Several of  
>>> them
>>> showed a gasoline > locomotive he once had stored in his garage in a
>>> nice suburban > neighborhood outside of Pittsburgh. He had rolled it
>>> out into the > driveway for the picture. In the background was a
>>> neighbor dressed
>>>> in a white shirt. Dave proceeded to tell how he cranked up the >
>>> engine. When the engine fired, all of the water that had >  
>>> accumulated
>>> in the exhaust system came up the stack. It washed the
>>>> dirt out of the muffler and stack. The neighbor's!
>>>   white shirt was > no longer white.. It was never again white.
>>> There was no bleach on > the market that could possibly make it  
>>> white.
>>> That should give > insights into why your neighbor might not want  
>>> any
>>> large steel > objects in your yard.> > In my township such  
>>> objects are
>>> simply forbidden by ordinance. We > are note even permitted to  
>>> work on
>>> our automobiles in our driveways > because of one guy who collected
>>> too many cars.> > > On May 6, 2008, at 5:54 PM, Jerry Matt Matsick
>>> wrote:> > > Content-Type: text/plain> >
>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit> > Herb> > Good Buddy Mark and I  
>>> often
>>> talk about the reason a 3800 series car > > was> > not saved?
>>> I remember them quite well in the late 40s and early > > 50s on
>>> the> > Charleroi Interurban route! A Beautiful Car!> >> > --> >
>>> From the River City by the Sea!> > Jerry "Matt" Matsick> >
>>> "Jacksonville"> >> >> > -------------- Original message from Herb
>>> Brannon > > > ---------------------------------> : -------------->
>>>>>>>>> Since!
>>>   we are on the topic of "saved" PRCo cars.......> >> Why was a 3800
>>> se ries interurban never saved?? They were around > >> until  
>>> 1950. It>
>>>>> seems someone would have tried to get one off the scrap pile.>  
>>>>> Fred
>>>>> Schneider wrote:> >> PST 14 and 78 were not operational.
>>> The other revenue fleet was> >> marked in service but not everything
>>> was run. Of course that> >> excludes 4398, and Pittsburgh 1100  
>>> series
>>> PCC and a whole lot of> >> stuff in the Blimp Hanger which is not in
>>> the revenue fleet.> >>> >> On May 6, 2008, at 9:33 AM, Jerry Matt
>>> Matsick wrote:> >>> >>> Mark M and myself wonder what "cars"  
>>> actually
>>> were operational this> >>> past weekend? Both of us would have given
>>> anything to be there as> >>> it looked like a fantastic time.>  
>>> >>> --
>>>>>>> From the River City by the Sea!> >>> Jerry "Matt" Matsick> >>>
>>> "Jacksonville"> >>>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Herb Brannon> >>> >> Greetings From America's
>>> North Coast> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at
>>> URL below --> > !
>>>  -- Type: image/jpeg> > -- Size: 92k (94795 bytes)> > -- URL :
>>> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/3800% > >
>>> 20south%20of%20Charleroi.jpg> >> >> >> > > > > > Herb Brannon> >
>>> Greetings From America's North Coast> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
>>> _________________________________________________________________
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