[PRCo] Re: 3800 Series LOST

Thu May 8 20:07:17 EDT 2008

Thanks for the afterthought mentioning of me there. Just to set the record straight I did work in the Service, Rates & Planning Department at PATransit, went on to Capital Metro in Austin, TX where I started as an operator and went into the Transit Operations Dept as an Operations Assistant (a kind of "go fer" this and that job, but a lot of fun and a lot of field work), then went to Lynx in Orlando, FL and started as an operator and went into the Safety Dept after a brief stint in the Schedule Dept. Just wanted things set straight. 

  Oh yes, I also do not begin to foam at the mouth when I see a streetcar or train. I enjoy operating transit vehicles because of the nature of the business, not the allure of the vehicles. I am just as happy driving the bus as I am operating a PCC streetcar. You claim we are all railfans, I say some of us are railfans and a few of us are transit professionals. I fall into the latter category. I personally think the only really good streetcar is the PCC. The older cars are slow, clumsy, far too noisy, and hard to operate. The PCC was made for running in mixed traffic and accomplished that task very well. Today the LRV type cars are made for private right of way or segregated street operation and they accomplish that task very well. Even the PCC is becoming "dated" in its appearance. Too bad there were never any further 'upgrades' to them.

  Why should "increasing passenger revenue" be part of "the deal"?? Transit is tax supported these days, thus the farebox is not as much a consideration as it was in "the day. A transit authority could not make it out of the farebox these days. Cleveland wants to increase ridership and has done so by bringing back the Cleveland Transit System route plan.This recent return to the old Cleveland Transit System (CTS) route system of turning all radial routes at Public Square or other downtown terminals has created more ridership. For instance, the former 25B/25W was a "through route". It traveled from Westgate Transit Center or Cordova Loop on the west side, went through downtown and continued East on either the "B" (Buckeye) or "W" (Woodland) branches of the route. A passenger riding across the city was counted only once. Now, with the the return of the CTS route system we have the 25-Madison on the west side and the 12-Woodland and 13-Buckeye on the east side. Now a passenger
 riding across the city is counted two times, once on the east side and once on the west side. Ridership has skyrocketed since going back to the old CTS system. However, most of the fares are the $4.00 All Day Pass which is valid on all RTA services from the time of purchase (purchased on the vehicles, from ticket machines at rail stations, or from either of the two RTA Customer Service locations in downtown) until 3AM the next day. As a bonus, if the All Day Pass is purchase at 9:31PM or later it is then good all night, all day the next day until 3AM the second day. Since the All Day Pass is good for unlimited rides on all services it too is a tool for increasing ridership. A lot of single rides are generated from the All Day Passes, however no extra revenue is seen. So, let me stop being wordy, like some, and sum it up by saying revenue is not what it's all about these days. Ridership is the key now.

  Always remember, this is from Herb, "the guy who was there too". 

Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
  Last Saturday night a group of us ... Russ Jackson, John Swindler, 
Joe Boscia, myself were sitting on Ed Lybarger's back porch. Herb 
Brannon was there too. The discussion was about contemporary 
industry practices. Joe worked for New Jersey Transit and is now in 
consulting. Russ worked for Louis T. Klauder in rail car design. 
After than he did the same thing for SEPTA and was in charge of the 
Kawasaki surface cars and the N-5 project (P&W) and then he went back 
into corporate consulting ... I don't think he'll ever retire John 
heads the senior citizen program for PennDOT. Somehow the 
discussion brought up the qualifications of the current SEPTA general 
manager: fund raising, political schmoozing, etc., but at no point 
was increasing passenger revenue part of the deal. Afterward 
someone said we should have recorded it. So now you know why the 
cars are now double-end again or you may have an inkling.
fws3

On May 8, 2008, at 3:23 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:

> Mr.Schneider!
>
>
> This is easily recognized isn't it -- NO OOOOPS about it is 
> there!!. That still leaves the fact that the predominant equipment 
> on PRC was single end doesn't it. The high-floor 4000s, 4700s thru 
> 5500s, 3750s, 3700s, 3800s, 3600s all single end. Inherited 
> equipment was hodge podge and with the introduction of the low- 
> floor it became the standard equipment, predominantly single end. 
> This made it very easy for the introduction of PCCs. A backup 
> controller doesn't change the operating configuration does it.
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Fred Schneider 
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 7, 2008 3:44:37 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 3800 Series LOST
>>
>> OOOOPS! Phil, all of the early low-floor production cars were
>> double end. Note the word production.
>> The first four cars were converted trailers. They were initially
>> single-end but I think they evolved with time into double end cars.
>> The only one that last any length of time was 4423 which became an
>> instruction car and then became a play room for Bob Brown and company
>> in the old Pittsburgh Chapter of the National Railway Historical
>> Society. Most of the NRHS members were drafted during the war and
>> the car shell became a lovely candidate for a war time metal scrap
>> drive. After the war most of those guys created the Pittsburgh
>> Electric Railway Club. I think many years later there was a
>> Pittsburgh NRHS Chapter again but not the same guys. And there
>> really isn't any one I can ask. Note that there are three founding
>> members of PERC still around but all the old guys that were in the
>> prewar NRHS group are pushing up daisies.
>>
>> Then came the 4200s and 4300s. the double end motor cars came between
>> 1914 and 1917. There were also a dozen second hand double-end cars
>> from Beaver Valley Traction Company that PRC acquired in the 1920s
>> and numbered 4400-4411; they were built in 1917 as a tag onto the 
>> 4350s.
>>
>> The single end cars were all built starting in 1917 and continuing
>> into 1927.
>>
>> The exception to that rule is that 3556 was the prototype for the
>> 3700-3714 interurbans.
>>
>> The 3750s were equivalent to the multiple unit equipped 5000s, 5100s
>> and 5200s except that they were built for interurban service. When
>> new they had toilets. They also had a higher gear ratio between
>> traction motor pinions and the bull gears on the axles allowing for
>> higher speeds but of course slower acceleration. When the company
>> selectively speeded up certain cars of the 4700-5549 group, I think
>> they also did all the 3750s. Ultimately ten of the 4350s were done,
>> probably for the 99 Glassport line and our 4398 is one of the few
>> high speed double end cars.
>>
>> One thing I noticed when the truck was apart a few weeks ago is that
>> it has helical drive gears. Now that wasn't something that the car
>> got when it was new. I suspect the helical gears were installed as
>> part of the rebuilding when the cars were speeded up to make them a
>> little less noisy. That was done in the early 1930s
>>
>> I put a roster on line perhaps five years ago and I'm putting it on
>> again. But you need Microsoft Word to open it.
>>
>> To make life easier for those who do not have Word, i.e. those who
>> have the home MS Works edition or have Word Perfect, I resaved it as
>> a text file. It isn't formatted into pages ... just a bloody run on
>> document, but you will be able to open it and read it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> 
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Herb Brannon

  Greetings From America's North Coast