[PRCo] Re: MU service on Frankstown

Wed May 14 12:25:22 EDT 2008

It wasn't Frankstown Ave. that I was considering.  It was Penn Avenue.  The 96 may have already been truncated at 62nd St. (remember, it was a downtown route originally) but there was still the Bloomfield loop and the Fifth-Shady-Penn cars and also the Butler cars.  At one time there were seven routes on Penn Ave.  So replacing a motor-trailer with a m-u train on 88 probably didn't help increase overall operational speed.   The service also had to be speeded up on the other routes using Penn.

Chick Siebert remembers riding an mu train on 82 Lincoln.  That would be an easier route to mu as not much else shared Centre, other then a Larimar route.  

As for Howard's comment, would not apply in this circumstance.  Again, making the assumption that PRC management could look into the future.  

You never mentioned how many cars/trains were assigned to 88 in peak?

> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: MU service on Frankstown> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:13:49 -0400> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > John:> > My first instinct was to look up the assignments to see how many MU > cars ran. The route card doesn't even show that ... it shows a > timetable that overlaps the MU and non-MU periods. About 3/4ths of > the rush hour cars on 88 pulled trailers and balance were singles ... > probably means that with MU cars 3/4ths were also MU and balance were > singles. So I did look that up.> > In that period, route 87 was using Frankstown Avenue and turning back > at East Liberty and 86 was coming out Liberty and Centre and briefly > using Penn and Frankstown to get to the Shetland loop. There wasn't > a whole lot of impingement on the 88 cars except once you got down > into the Strip District and then I suspect that traffic was probably > so bad that it would not have mattered what cars you had, you would > not have moved fast.> > Route 86 went one-man in 1926. Route 87 Ardmore went one man in > 1924. Route 86 was the inner end of the 87 everyone on this list > knows. It was a very heavy route and one of the first to go one- > man. The MU cars came later. Route 68 McKeesport in 1931 was one > of the last.> > When we consider that San Francisco and Chicago had two-man cars > until 1958 and Philly into the 1970s, the Pittsburgh conversions were > phenomenal.> > But then, John, remember our scholarly friend Howard White. He once > came to me asking "What percent of corporate decisions are good > ones?" I didn't know what he read that morning ... might have been > something he saw in the Wall Street Journal. But the answer was, > "An incredibly well managed corporation might make 58% of its policy > decisions correctly and 42% incorrectly. A company cruising for > bankruptcy might make 52% of its decisions properly and 48% of them > would be faulty." There was a lot of room in any corporate business > environment for stupid decisions. May simply be that the orders of > the MU cars were a classic example of "Let not the right hand know > what the left hand is doing."> > fws> > On May 14, 2008, at 9:30 AM, John Swindler wrote:> > > Hi Fred> >> > Maybe to get rid of a high floor car or single truck car from a > > predecessor?> >> > The low-floor trailer fleet didn't disappear with delivery of > > 5000s. Maybe the higher performance level of mu train not needed, > > or could not be used, as would be similar to mixing PCC cars and > > low-speed cars on a route. For operational scheduling reasons, > > perhaps a motor-trailer operation worked best on 88. As single > > cars the 5000s could replace two older cars. Did the 5000s stay on > > 88???? There were a lot of routes operating on Penn Ave.> >> > Maybe the delivery of 5100s, 5200s, and 3750s was in anticipation > > of future plan that did not foresee one-man cars on routes like > > 88. This is like asking why did so many cities buy PCC cars after > > WWII only to discontinue rail service a few years later.> >> > We keep forgetting that we are looking back to this era with 20/20 > > hindsight. We know that there was a Great Depression around the > > corner. PRC management didn't. Likewise we know how auto > > ownership, suburban development, etc occurred.> >> > Just surmising.> >> > John> >> >> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] MU service on > >> Frankstown> Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 22:28:48 -0400> To: pittsburgh- > >> railways at dementia.org> > Here is an issue that cries out for > >> resolution should anyone want to > read stacks of newspapers.> > > >> Why did Pittsburgh Railways install MU cars on route 88 FRANKSTOWN > >> > on December 10, 1924 only to eliminate the service on April 8, > >> 1925?> > One might suspect that they converted the line to one-man > >> operation > so that there would no longer be a labor saving by > >> running MU > trains. That wasn't the case. While PRC was > >> converting to one-man > service all through the period from 1926 > >> to 1931, route 88 did not > get one-man cars until Feb. 9, 1930 on > >> Sundays and October 6, 1930 on > Monday through Saturdays. In > >> fact, the platform hours do not drop > completely on October 6-11, > >> 1930 rather obviously because they > continued to run trailers in > >> the rush hours on 88 FRANKSTOWN through > August 29, 1931 and they > >> needed conductors on !> > the motor cars to pass > bell signals from the trailer conductors > > to the motormen of the motor > cars.> > So why did they quit > > running the MU cars? And why did they buy the > 5100s, 5200s and > > 3750s after they quit running the 5000s on FRANKSTOWN?> > Maybe > > just reading the Sun Telly or the Press or the Post Gazette on > or > > about April 8, 1925 will yield an > > > answer..................................... > >> > _________________________________________________________________> > Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics.> > http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008> >> > > 
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