[PRCo] Re: SE DE

[Fred Schneider]

Not sure how many places converted DE to SE.   Pittsburgh did.    
Birmingham might have.   I never paid much attention to what was  
happening in Vera Cruz.    You're right about management not  
caring ... but they do care if it means you can cut cars out of a  
schedule or if cars back up or if politicians complain because of the  
problem.    Come on John ... gas stations were not issues when we  
made those changes ... Pittsburgh leased a lot of loops for gas  
stations but that was late in the game and had nothing to do with the  
earlier years.    You will also recall how the city reacted to PRC  
doing that ... "How dare you make money doing that!!!!!!!"

On May 17, 2008, at 5:06 PM, John Swindler wrote:

>
>
> Switch points and frogs needed for stub terminals, but not needed  
> for a loop.  Although it is nice to have a siding at a loop.
>
> Also, with a loop, if large enough, the center part can be leased  
> for a gas station.  Pirl St. comes to mind, but won't swear to it.
>
> And management doesn't care if the motorman has to "lug" handles,  
> farebox and supplies to the other end.  They do care if cars back  
> up because of scheduled headway and congestion at the terminal.
>
> Didnt' Vera Cruz shop double end cars to convert to single end?   
> Likewise Birmingham?
> John
>
>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: SE DE> Date:  
>> Sat, 17 May 2008 15:03:05 -0400> To: pittsburgh- 
>> railways at dementia.org> > A lot of reasons for single-end  
>> equipment:> > 1) you can put more people in more seats. Depending  
>> on how wide the > center doors are or whether or not there are  
>> center doors, a single- > end car will seat 9 to 23 more people  
>> than a double-end car. > Therefore you have more happy customers.>  
>> > 2) Happy customers produce more revenue.> > 3) Seats cost less  
>> than additional controls, wiring, air brake > piping and hand  
>> brake rigging.> > 4) Turn around time at the ends of lines using  
>> single end equipment > is shorter than that required for double- 
>> end equipment. The > operator doesn't have to lug the handles,  
>> money changer, his supplies > and the fare box to the other end of  
>> the car and flip all those > blankety-blank seats. You can go  
>> through a loop, fill in the day > card, and be out in 30 seconds.  
>> The double end car will require > several mi!
>  nutes. So single end cars on a line might save a car or > two in  
> the rush hour and that, in today's dollars is $2 million for > an  
> articulated or about $1 million for a single car.> > 5) Traffic  
> congestion favors single end equipment because you can > turn it on  
> private property.> > Working against it and in favor of the double- 
> end cars you already have:> > 1) loops, either on private property  
> or around city streets cost > money. Special work is incredibly  
> costly to fabricate. ("Special > work" is the term used for track  
> frogs and switch points. It is > usually a manganese steel which is  
> much harder and more durable than > ordinary carbon-steel.)> > 2)  
> If you build the loop on private property, the real estate costs >  
> money. If there is already a house there, it costs money to >  
> demolish it, fill in the basement and level the property.> > 3) If  
> you have a large fleet of undepreciated and not fully > amortized  
> double-cars, you really don't want to write them off and > buy ne!
>  w single-end cars if you can you don't have to. You also > don't want
> to spend the money shopping those double-end cars to > convert them  
> into single-end cars if you don't have to because that > costs  
> money.> > 4) Stockholders don't like you spending their money on  
> things you > don't need.> > 5) When I say double-end cars you  
> already have, remember that > everyone already had double-end cars.  
> That is the way the industry > started.> > 6) You can also turn  
> double-end cars on a spur onto private property > but once you have  
> the land for a spur, you might as well take > advantage of items i,  
> 2, 3 and 4 in the first section.> > And then there is the narrow  
> versus wide streets issue.> > Finally there is the status quo  
> issue. Every business is filled > with people whose mentality  
> favors "we've always done it that way and > we should continue to  
> do so" regardless of whether or not it makes > any sense at all.> >  
> > On May 17, 2008, at 2:38 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:> > >  
> ----- Original Message ----> >> From: John Swindler  
> <j_swindler at hotmail.co!
>  m>> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> >> Sent: Saturday,  
> May 17, 2008 8:34:55 AM> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: SE DE> >>> >>> >>  
> Ah, Fred,> >> Russ Jackson told us a very valid reason for large  
> cities to go to > >> single end> >> equipment, and Ed Tennyson has  
> told us about the 1700 series > >> interurban> >> purchase.> >>> >>  
> Russ' stories about MUNI also says a lot about the Third Ave. Ry. >  
> >> route> >> structure in Manhattan.> >> > Mr.Swindler!> >>  
> > ....And those stories are?> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
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