[PRCo] Re: PRC History

[Edward H. Lybarger]

I thought I had done that when I said that the interurban lines operated out
of Divisions 12 and 13...the first digit or two of the route number was the
division from which it operated.

The two-digit destination numbers came about in 1914 when PRCo figured out
that the average person wasn't going to interpret the colored marker signs
on top of the cars and translate them into destinations or route numbers.
I'm guessing there was some not-so-gentle pressure from the city and the
press, as well.

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Phillip
Clark Campbell
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2008 12:30 AM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRC History

Mr.Lybarger!


Below you wrote: "In the earlier years, it hadn't become the calcified
railroad mindset that allowed change only under duress."  This is the
'concrete' to which I referred didn't I.  Nothing new under the sun is there
so calcification probably happened to PRC - just when.

I recognize that PRC had 'book-keeping' route numbers in the 3-or-4-digits
but used only 2-digits on the cars themselves didn't they.  Can you state a
purpose for the 3-4-digit variety?

Someone mentioned something about assumptions didn't they.  That is all they
are - not unlike postulations that are expressed while looking for facts /
truth; nothing implied that it is truth is there.



Phil




----- Original Message ----
From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:00:35 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRC History

There was never any concrete.  But there were railfans who liked to think
that the system as it was about 1940 should be the gold standard.  The
change after that was of course shrinkage, but the fans cried every time a
route was lost.  Much whining and caterwauling occurred between 1951 and
1971, by which time the system took essentially its present dimensions.

You are reading something into my route vs destination comments that is not
there.  They were absolutely arbitrary.  All the PRCo routes had numbers.
The interurbans never had two-digit destination numbers, however.  They had
four-digit route numbers, because they operated out of Divisions 12 and 13.
I think you actually need to study the route cards like Fred, John and I
have done to even begin to comprehend what the relationships were between
the route numbers and the destination numbers.




-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Phillip
Clark Campbell
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 3:44 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] PRC History


Mr.Lybarger!

We could say that the only 'constant' is 'change' couldn't we.  This is very
true everywhere today inside and outside the railway companies isn't it.
Outsiders notice it most; people living through the change don't notice it
as much until they reflect do they.  Just look at the city Of Pgh itself
over the years / decades  --  goodness!  From your studies have you found a
time frame where the mindset of PRC became set in concrete?  I would guess
that this is after the railway was essentially formed and stabilized.  The
consolidation of hundreds into PRC would see a tremendous amount of
restructuring for a couple decades.  Once auto competition became keen the
railway would 'probably not' realize much growth but rather adjustment to
reflect needs; this might be when the concrete sets.

This distinction may have come later than mentioned below but it is now
generally recognized that Interurbans used Destination signs and city lines
used Route Signs.  Destination signs were just that - the town to which the
Interurban traveled and usually lacked letter / number preface.  City routes
used letter / number preface to a name of a location / dominant street /
etc.  There are exceptions - Johnstown didn't use letters / numbers and
neither did Boston in the past - could be others.



Phil



----- Original Message ----
> From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 7:16:18 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 97

> > A point that has been eluding us all in these discussions is that until
1938, the numbers we came to know as route numbers were officially
"destination numbers."  The route numbers were the three-digit numbers.

> > The other thread that can't ever be forgotten is how much things changed
in a fairly quick time frame.  In the earlier years, it hadn't become the
calcified railroad mindset that allowed change only under duress.

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of 
> John Swindler
> Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2008 1:00 AM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 97
> 
> 
> Maybe because very early 98 wasn't Glassport-Wilmerding, and it is the 
> railfans on this fantrip that were correct.
> 
> So what listing do you have for 97, Fred???
> 
> John
> 
> > From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: 97
> > Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 16:29:49 -0400
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org So, Boris, what is your point 
> > by enclosing was is obviously a fantrip rollsign?
> > During the PCC era 98 was Glassport - Pirl Street. Very early 98 was 
> > also Glassport Wilmerding.> > > >