[PRCo] Re: (no subject)

[Ken and Tracie]

Fred,

My cousin lives in a condo right along one of the street running stretches 
of the new line. You can take fantastic shots from his balcony. The Phoenix 
trolley museum is just up the street and a little further along is a static 
display of vintage transit buses and a TTC PCC. There is also a fantastic 
Native American museum.

I'll see if he can put us up for a few nights. Charlie from Long Beach may 
join us, too.

K.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 8:47 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: (no subject)


>
>
> Should have looked in Carlisle for gas, Fred.  The Sheetz station near the 
> turnpike entrance was selling it at $2.19 per gallon last Monday.  It's 
> $2.24 in Akron, Pa, and around Stevens it's around $2.40.  The news 
> mentioned that the drop in oil prices is putting about $100 billion on 
> annual basis back into consumer pockets.  That's a nice "tax stimulus" 
> package.
>
> And as for Phoenix, what does it matter.  Oil is under $70 per barrel. 
> Price will fluctuate, but suspecting this low price is a bet that a 
> recession is in the future.  There was a recent article that this low 
> price is causing domestic problems for some oil producing countries. 
> Pity. (:>)
>
> My Hershey bus was around 35 passengers during the summer.  Looks like we 
> are holding in the upper 20s of late.  About a year ago it was in the low 
> 20s.  Until recently mostly older commuters, but we have (so far) kept 
> some of the younger riders from the summer.  The York system added a 
> fourth commuter bus to Harrisburg about a month ago.
>
> What about Pittsburgh transit ridership???  But doesn't sound good for the 
> labor contract.
>
> John
>
>
>
>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net> Subject: [PRCo] Re: (no subject)> Date: 
>> Sat, 1 Nov 2008 18:16:34 -0400> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org> > 
>> No question about it that the average transit patron goes a greater > 
>> distance today. We moved to the suburbs. The word suburb can be > taken 
>> to mean anything beyond where we lived before. The suburbs in > 1900 were 
>> a ring of new homes in Lawrenceville or starting up > Perrysville Plank 
>> Road. In 1920 the new suburbs were Squirrel Hill > or East Liberty or 
>> farther out Perrysville Avenue or Emsworth. In > 1930 the new suburbs 
>> were Dormont or Mount Lebanon. In 1945 it was > Brentwood Motor Coach or 
>> Mr. Deere's buses that were delivering the > wives to the new suburbs (if 
>> they didn't have a car) or the interuban > lines.> > If you want to look 
>> out in the Pacific Northwest where you live > Phillip, I can think of a 
>> picture that my old friend Bill Middleton > took of an interurban car on 
>> the Gresham line of Portland > Traction ... Bill to!
> ok it from a bridge showing the car coming > through a woods. More 
> recently I took the same picture with a light > car but around the woods 
> the area is filled with suburban homes that > were not there when WDM took 
> his picture a half century ago.> > Sure we are going greater distances. 
> And we expect a cheap fare too.> > The transit companies made a lot of 
> money when the could collect a > nickel to haul you two miles from 
> downtown to Manchester. They > don't make money on $2.00 moving you ten 
> miles into the burbs.> > And the public probably thinks that there is no 
> reason to be serious > about saving energy now that gas prices are down 
> again. Lowest I've > seen in Lancaster this week was $2.459 yesterday. 
> Last week it was > $2.599 here and typically 2.859 in Pittsburgh. 
> Curiously ... if I > should want to drive out to the Phoenix LRT ... what 
> are gas prices > in the southwest now?> > > On Nov 1, 2008, at 4:24 PM, 
> Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:> > >> Schneider Fred <fwschneider!
> @comcast.net> wrote:> >> >> >> What has given me utter amazement is ho
> w dense> >> the human and industrial (job) population had> >> to be in 
> Manchester in the teens and twenties> >> in order to support routes 16, 
> 17, 18, 19 and> >> 20 in a one-square mile area. That was not> >> the era 
> of government operation. It was> >> private enterprise. You did not run 
> empty> >> streetcars. You ran routes because you> >> could fill the cars.> 
>  >>> >> The same applied to the Strip District.> >> Can we imagine today 
> that the area along Penn> >> and Liberty Avenues from 11th to 33rd had so 
> many> >> jobs that it warranted an incline down from> >> Herron Hill, a 
> separate route from Manchester> >> over the 16th Street Bridge, the Spring 
> Hill> >> and Spring Hill and Spring Garden lines over> >> the 16th Street 
> Bridge, and rush hour trippers> >> on East Liberty routes that didn't go 
> downtown> >> but only went to the strip district to service> >> the 
> factories?> >> >> > Maybe the following provides a clue or piece of 
> evidence in this > > "puzzle:"> >> > "The "histor!
> ic examples" of high passenger traffic densities carried> > by street 
> tramway lines come from cities such as San Francisco, Los> > Angeles, 
> Chicago and New York. Such high traffic densities are> > conspicuous by 
> their absence from Seattle "historic data." This, we> > admit, came as 
> something as a surprise, because we did not anticipate> > such "low" 
> annual traffic density statistics. For Seattle data, see> > 
> http://www.publictransit.us/ptlibrary/trafficdensity/data/SSeattle.htm> > 
> For> > example: at 1923, Seattle Municipal Street Railway street tramway > 
>  > lines> > (electric and cable) carried 88.9 million passengers (the sum 
> of> > "revenue" and "transfer" passengers, equivalent to "boardings" as 
> used> > today).> > Nearly 90 million annual boardings is is an impressive> 
>  > figure by today's standards - but there's a "catch." The average > > 
> travel> > distance "back then" was significantly shorter than it is today. 
> That,> > in other words, means that transit systems carried m!
> any more> > "short-distance" trips than they do today."> >> > The abov
> e from:> > http://www.publictransit.us/index.php? > > 
> option=com_content&task=view&id=173> >> > The real key here is this 
> sentence isn't it?> > "That,> > in other words, means that transit systems 
> carried many more> > "short-distance" trips than they do today."> >> > 
> From our perspective of minimal if any transit usage in 2008, so > > many 
> lines in one area seems like overkill doesn't it. Standing in > > their 
> shoes to look at the number of lines available may seem quite > > normal 
> or maybe not even enough since they possibly rode shorter > > distances 
> (reference above) and possibly much more often daily. > > This would 
> dictate more service than known today whether increased > > frequency or 
> number of lines.> >> > This is only one factor to consider; there are 
> probably many more > > but it seems like a very reasonable observation.> 
>  >> >> > Phil> >> > PS: I went to the 'home' page of the url provided by 
> Mr.Barry:> > http://www.publictransit.us/> >> > I find it interesting - o!
> dd - that an 'About' tab is not listed; > > i.e., it lacks identification 
> as to who operates the site and > > purpose although the basic approach is 
> pro-transit. The site seems > > to have a northwest bias - observation, 
> not criticism.> >> >> >> >> >> >> >
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