[PRCo] Fwd: Pittsburgh Railways Vol One by Gordon Beal
Schneider Fred
fwschneider at comcast.net
Fri Oct 10 12:52:38 EDT 2008
John Bromley added a few more of his uncredited pictures
Begin forwarded message:
> From: John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>
> Date: October 10, 2008 9:57:32 AM EDT
> To: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: Pittsburgh Railways Vol One by Gordon Beal
>
> SOME COMMENTARY WITHIN (AFTER PAGE 262):
>
>
> On 10-Oct-08, at 1:00 AM, Schneider Fred wrote:
>
>> Those of you who have a copy of Ron Beal's First Book on
>> Pittsburgh Railways may wish to print this out as a partial errata
>> sheet. It is by no means complete and represents only those items
>> I found on a cursory reading.
>>
>> Page 12: Mr Beal continues to perpetuate the illusion that the 62
>> 1/2 inch gauge was to keep freight trains off city streets in
>> spite of the fact that Ed Lybarger did some rather extensive
>> research on this subject and published it in Trolley Fare several
>> years before Beal published his book. There were a wide variety
>> of gauges, at least three common wide gauges 62 11/4, 62 1/2 and
>> 63 inches within Pennsylvania.
>>
>> Page 50, Para. 5: I fail to comprehend how the distance between
>> North Avenue and the Perrysville Plank Road on Federal Street can
>> be 3.5 miles. Other sources say the line might have gone as far
>> as the original Brashear observatory which was part of the
>> university complex that was later moved to Oakland. This still
>> isn't a mile.
>>
>> Page 133: Lower Photo credit should be University of Pittsburgh,
>> Archives of an Industrial Society.
>>
>> Page 161: Definition of reason for high floor car is absurd.
>> All one needs to do its look at the picture he published and see
>> the clearance between theground and the resistors, compressor and
>> air tanks to realize that was not the reason for the floor
>> height. The real reason was the size of the low speed motors
>> used on those cars. That was thoroughly documented in all the
>> trade journals starting in 1913.
>>
>> Page 169: Instruction car 4405 did not have low speed and high
>> speed controls. Impossible. The speed was a function of the
>> motors. The car, however, had both a drum controller on one end
>> and HL-remote control on the other end. It also had a self-
>> lapping brake valve on one end and a manually lapped valve on the
>> other. Therefore an operator who ran it would understand any
>> possible low floor car he could ever receive except those with
>> Jones or Westinghouse VA control.
>>
>> Page 174: Double deck cars were used basically on the Highland
>> Routes? He should read the route cards. They were used on one
>> line only except during a period of street construction.
>>
>> Page 178: One needs to drive around the city to locate where the
>> picture was taken on this page and once you do, then you will not
>> suggest it was for the inaugural date of MU operation on route
>> 82. The picture was taken on Forbes Avenue at Wilkinsburg
>> Junction (or Braddock Avenue, however you want to know the
>> intersection) ... it is where route 67 split off routes 64 and
>> 66. It is no where near the 82 line. The people in the doorway
>> are company officials. Our late friend Tom Phillips recognized
>> one of the people as a relative of his who was a company
>> treasurer. The route cards do not show MU operation on route 82
>> however I have one acquaintance who claims he rode MU cars on that
>> line. The route cards also do not show MU cars on 37. Both
>> lines, however, had trailers. Route 88 Frankstown used MU cars
>> only from Dec. 10, 1924 until March 8, 1925.
>>
>> Ibid: Beal claims there were only 243 city MU cars. Because the
>> 3750s were rapidly withdrawn from the interurbans and put on
>> Sewickley and Castle Shannon, I would increase that number to 263.
>>
>> Ibid: The Invention of MU control on the Chicago South Side
>> Elevated Railway by Frank J. Sprague was 1897, not 1895.
>> Westinghouse followed with their version for Brooklyn in 1898.
>>
>> Ibid: Under Six Motor Trains, last line, where he writes, "And
>> the system offered a lot of flexibility, as each car could also be
>> run independently." He should point out that the trailer only had
>> a hand brake and a single point hostling control to allow it to be
>> inched up to the motor car. It could not be run out on the
>> line. That scheme was only to allow it to be run in the yard.
>>
>> Page 182 Under general specifications: Jones cars were not
>> limited to HL or K-43 control. The double-end cars, converted
>> trailers, 4700s, were built with Jones remote control. Those cars
>> designed to pull motorized trailers, i.e. the 4800s and 4900s and
>> I think the 5500s had K-43. The 5400s had K-35KK. The 5000s,
>> 5100s, 5200s and 3750s had something made by Westinghouse called
>> HL but it was really a knock off of General Electric type M. Some
>> 4700s later got Westinghouse variable automatic (VA). Anything
>> that had Jones and was rebuilt got either HL or some form of K-
>> control. In other words, there were not two versions of control
>> as he wrote but five.
>>
>> Page 183 Westinghouse HL was never an automatic acceleration
>> controller. The letter H in the generic designation stands for H
>> controlled progression. Westinghouse schemes with automatic
>> progression used the letter A, such as AL or AB or ABLFM or ABF or
>> ALF.
>>
>> Page 185 He suggests in line 2 that the railways were intimidated
>> by motor buses. Au contraire. The railways used them to survive
>> and preserve the corporations for many more years. They were
>> worried about the automobile and they knew it. (In partial
>> recognition that Pittsburgh was different, many of the independent
>> must companies that competed with PRC developed from jitney
>> operators around World War I but if that is what he meant, he
>> should have said so.)
>>
>> Page line 185 para 3: The VA control cars had hand control from
>> the gitgo.
>>
>> Page 185 Para 4: The trucks were similar in only that they were
>> inside frame trucks.
>>
>> Page 185, Para 7: Balancing speed in the Electric Railway Journal
>> was listed as 37 miles per hour (not 40). The 15 to 24 miles per
>> hour up hill is meaningless because he fails to specify the car
>> load and the gradient.
>>
>> Page 185, Last Para: He claims that 413 cars became high speed
>> and 286 remained low speed. That totals 699 out of 618 cars.
>>
>> Page 187, Para. 2: The word triple valve suggests that perhaps he
>> does not understand air systems. A triple valve is device used
>> on automatic air brake systems. Those systems are used only on
>> railroads, subway and elevated trains, and interurban railways
>> that operated long trains (CNS&M, CSS&SB, CA&E). The triple
>> valve under each car sense changes in the brake pipe pressure and
>> if the pressure increases, it releases the brakes and charges the
>> reservoirs under each car. If the pressure drops because the
>> engineer made a brake reduction, then it takes air from the car
>> reservoirs and feeds it into the brake cylinder. Triple means
>> three pipes essentially -- brake pipe, reservoir, cylinder.
>> Streetcars with straight air systems generally do not have triple
>> valves.
>>
>> Page 187: Here he claims that Dan Bell invented the Westinghouse
>> 514PR motor. I doubt it.
>>
>> Page 259: Upper photograph was from a Kodachrome slide by Russell
>> E. Jackson.
>>
>> Page 262: Upper photo was taken by John Bromley and, according to
>> John, was used without permission.
>
>> NO, BOTH PHOTOS ARE MINE AND I'VE NEVER HEARD FROM THE MAN, EVER.
>> AND NOT JUST THESE PHOTOS, EITHER. THERE ARE SEVERAL MORE - BOTH
>> ON 343 ARE COPIED FROM PRINTS MADE FROM MY SLIDES. IN FACT I
>> WROTE TO THE PITTSBURGH GROUP WEBSITE WHEN THIS TOME WAS FIRST
>> RELESED WITH THE FOLLOWING COMMENT )YOU'VE ROBABLY DISCOVERED A
>> FEW OTHERS HAT WERE ALSO UNAYTHORIZED - THIS WAS BASED SOLELY ON
>> PRINTS YOU'D MADE FOR ME)
>>
>> "The unauthorized use of JFB photos is on Pages 171 (3703), 262
>> top (1179),
>> 262 bottom (1288), 324 top (1795), 343 top (1605), 343 bottom (1560).
>>
>> He also used, without authorization, p360 top (1556 by John Stern,
>> a print
>> made by FWS), 375 top (1483, FWS), 377 (1477 FWS), 397 (1557/1287
>> and 1292 J
>> Wm Vigrass), 423 (1289, JWV), 440 (1603 FWS)."
>>
>> Page 266: Only certain rush hours on route 7 (trippers) short
>> turned at Brightridge (Brighton Place). That was not made clear.
>>
>> Page 269: Route 8 was not extended to Keating Car House when PCCs
>> came in 1940. He missed that by 14 years. The route cards
>> claim the company believed it happened February 19, 1926. It did
>> not happen when Keating opened but shortly thereafter, probably to
>> eliminate congestion at Perrysville and East streets.
>>
>> Page 273: Upper Photo appeared in one of the PCC books by
>> Schneider and Carlson. It was copyrighted by Fred Schneider.
>> The copyright is filed in the Library of Congress. Beal copied
>> it from the PCC book and used it without asking for permission.
>>
>> Page 275: He claims that Route 9, a short turn of route 8 was
>> eliminated in 1951. He is confusing Route 9, the tripper version
>> of route 8 that lasted until 1926 with the Charles Street Shuttle
>> which was later given the number 9 after the service on
>> Perrysville Avenue no longer required it. There is evidence that
>> the Charles Street cars were extended to Milroy St. on the same
>> day in 1926 that the Perrysville cars were extended from East
>> Street to Keating Car House. When the company simply decided to
>> use all those double end cars with the 9 CHARLES roll signs on
>> Charles Street, a very logical idea, was not recorded in the route
>> cards. It didn't matter.
>>
>> Page 278: Upper photo should have been credited to Edward S. Miller.
>>
>> Page 334, Upper Photo appeared in one of the PCC books by
>> Schneider and Carlson. It was copyrighted by Fred Schneider.
>> The copyright is filed in the Library of Congress. Beal copied
>> it from the PCC book and used it without asking for permission.
>>
>> Page 344: Upper photo was copied out of one of the Schneider and
>> Carlson PCC books ... you can see the Benday pattern where the two
>> engraving screens collided. The photo should have been credited
>> to Edward S. Miller.
>>
>> Page 350, Photo appeared in one of the PCC books by Schneider and
>> Carlson. It was copyrighted by Fred Schneider. The copyright
>> is filed in the Library of Congress. Beal copied it from the PCC
>> book and used it without asking for permission.
>>
>> Page 344: Upper photo was copied out of one of the Schneider and
>> Carlson PCC books ... you can see the Benday pattern where the two
>> engraving screens collided. The photo should have been credited
>> to John Stern. The same applies to the upper photo on page 361.
>>
>> Page 374: Upper photo should have been credited to Edward S. Miller.
>>
>> Page 375, Upper photo appeared in one of the PCC books by
>> Schneider and Carlson. It was copyrighted by Fred Schneider.
>> The copyright is filed in the Library of Congress. Beal copied
>> it from the PCC book and used it without asking for permission.
>>
>> Page 377, Photo appeared in one of the PCC books by Schneider and
>> Carlson. It was copyrighted by Fred Schneider. The copyright
>> is filed in the Library of Congress. Beal copied it from the PCC
>> book and used it without asking for permission.
>>
>> Page 382: Westinghouse cars were never assigned to Ingram
>> Carhouse. The 1111 was out there on a fantrip. Would have been
>> nice if that had been noted.
>>
>> Page 385: Car 1630 was assigned to Tunnel and was running as a
>> fantrip. Would have been nice to have noted this.
>>
>> Page 392: See comment for page 385.
>>
>> Page 413: For much of its life, route 32 ran from West End
>> Circle to Smithfield Street. Ed Miller has pictures of cars at
>> West End Circle in 1952 possibly disproving the routing listed on
>> this page.
>>
>> Page 415: The photo of 4411 on this page is a C. J. Dengler photo
>> from the Miller Library. It was taken long after route 33 quit
>> running. One can only suspect that Dengler turned the roll
>> sign. It is still in its unrebuilt two-man Jones control
>> configuration in the 1940s.
>>
>> Page 434: Lower photo may have been borrowed from Miller Library,
>> PTM.
>>
>> Page 436: Lower photo may have been borrowed from Miller Library,
>> PTM. It was taken by Charles Dengler.
>>
>> Page 440: Lower photo was taken by Fred Schneider. Used without
>> permission. It was previously published in Headlights magazine.
>> Upper photo may have been borrowed from Miller
>> Library, PTM. That is where I've seen the negative.
>>
>> Page 441: An original print of this is in the Miller Library, PTM.
>>
>> Page 464: I suspect the MU was greatly over emphasized. It was
>> abolished before the 5100s were received. The company was
>> already converting to one-man operation at the same time it was
>> buying multiple unit cars. A train of MU cars required two
>> people. Two one-man cars required two people. There was no
>> labor saving. The ignored the plan.
>>
>> Page 479: In this case I admit to picking nits. He claims that
>> Schenley Park had no trolleys. The picture on page 107 is
>> technically within the park boundary on land that I think later
>> became part of Carnegie Mellon University.
>>
>> Page 481: Beal claims that trailers were operated Dream City
>> Park. If they were, Pittsburgh Railways neither recorded the use
>> of the cars nor the crew hours in the route cards. Therefore I
>> suspect that trailers were not used.
>>
>> Page 482: Mr. Beal claims West View Park was the last amusement
>> park in the United States which you could reach by trolley cars.
>> Perhaps he does not consider light rail cars to have any
>> relationship to trolley cars. You can ride the San Jose light
>> rail to Great America amusement park. You can also ride Denver
>> RTD to Elitch Gardens. http://www.elitchgardens.com/ If
>> subways count, there is still a roller coaster at Coney Island in
>> Brooklyn.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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