[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh one-man cars

[Ken and Tracie]

Of course, you meant Canada when you wrote " It was one of the earlier 
public transit agencies in the nation" concerning Toronto. Our Canadian 
friends tend to pimp slap us when we think of their nation as our "51st 
state". ;-)

Seriously, wasn't the Shaker Heights Rapid Transit built as the "Cleveland 
Interurban Railroad" after WW I to serve new subdivisions? If so, it would 
be an exception to the rule.

I'm not sure about when  the SHRT was built, but I seem to recall it was 
built rather late. I'm sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong.

Scott Greig noted the CRT's 1926 extension to Niles Center (Skokie), via the 
NSL,  didn't work out and was replaced by buses in 1948. Of course, George 
Krambles brought it back as the "Skokie Swift" in 1964 and it has been 
successful since.

Then there was the Rochester Subway, built primarily to get the big 
interurbans cars off the streets. Of course, these interurbans were all 
abandoned a year or so after the line opened.

Even so, there are diehard Milwaukee fans who insist a six block subway from 
the end of the P.R.O.W. east to the Beer City terminal would have guaranteed 
retention of Milwaukee's Rapid Transit Line. Never mind that today's 
interurban bus lines (Greyhound and Badger) find their way to I-94 traveling 
virtually the same distance over city streets.

The six block Milwaukee subway, if completed probably would have become a 
conduit for the steam heating pipes from Valley Power Plant to the large 
steam heat customers downtown......

K.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Schneider Fred" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 9:24 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh one-man cars


> Doesn't it....
>
> And that logic worked for a while.    Building in vacant fields and
> expecting traffic to materialize worked fine in 1900-1915.   But
> after World War One we wanted our automobiles.   If you had a shiny
> new Model T,  you had a girl friend.    (Sex sells, doesn't it.)
>
> Think of all those lines that Henry Huntington built in the Southland
> under the Pacific Electric banner to support his housing
> developments.   I think Donald Duke once told me that there was one
> line, perhaps Newport Beach or Huntington Beach that did not serve
> Huntington real estate.    All the rest did.
>
> And then the automobile came and the transit promoters were no longer
> stupid enough to follow the axiom, "build and they will come."
>
> Remember how Toronto Railway, in the 1920s, refused to build into new
> areas because they felt there would be no profit in doing it.   That
> resulted in the formation of the Toronto Civic Railway, which
> eventually bought out Toronto Railway, and became TTC.  (I do not
> remember which order.)    It was one of the earlier public transit
> agencies in the nation.
>
> And how about the parent company of Pittsburgh Railways?   San
> Francisco's Market Street Railway, owned by United Railroads  (United
> was the PRC founder), refused to build into certain parts of that
> city's Western Addition feeling there was no money to be had.  So
> what happened?   The city formed the Municipal Railway in 1912 (I
> think that was the date) to provide service to those areas.  Lines B
> and C ran out Geary to the ocean while K, L, M, N and J were south of
> Golden Gate Park.   Muni acquired Market Street Railway in 1944 and I
> think it is rather ironic that the lines running today are Muni
> lines; the Market Street lines were all abandoned after the war.
> One exception.  The new line on South Third Street restores service
> that Market Street Railway abandoned before World War II.
>
> I don't know enough about the Cleveland or Boston history to know if
> those early public agencies resulted from attempts to build into
> virgin territory or early solutions to business failures.
>
> New York was the largest early public agency when Brooklyn and Queens
> Transit / BMT and the Interborough Rapid Transit fell into city
> ownership in 1940.   That was more city political greed and
> manipulation under Mayor LaGuardia than any above board reasons.
> The city had previously built the Independent division of the subway
> starting about 1930-1933 competing with the IRT and BMT.   (Certainly
> you know I'm going to say that the city building a subway under the
> IRT's subsidiary Manhattan Railway Corporation's 6th Avenue elevated
> is not fair competition and has political overtones.   Sounds to me
> like, "You'll do it our way or else.")
>
>
> On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
>
>> Sort of reminds me of those CSL lines like Argo, which ran into the
>> prairies
>> outside Chicago on open track, laid on "streets" mapped by the city/
>> county,
>> but not yet built.
>>
>> K.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Schneider Fred" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:19 AM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh one-man cars
>>
>>
>>> Ed Lybarger mentioned that a year or so ago.   Brookline via South
>>> Bank ran from Brookline Blvd and Queensboro Avenue to downtown via
>>> the P&CS beginning September 12, 1910.   It was discontinued November
>>> 1910 due to "traffic insufficient."   Nobody lived there that early.
>>
>>
>
>