[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh one-man cars

[Edward H. Lybarger]

Market Street Railway was not PRCo's parent company.  It was another holding
of United Railways Investment Company of Jersey City, NJ. 

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
Schneider Fred
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 12:25 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh one-man cars

Doesn't it....

And that logic worked for a while.    Building in vacant fields and  
expecting traffic to materialize worked fine in 1900-1915.   But  
after World War One we wanted our automobiles.   If you had a shiny  
new Model T,  you had a girl friend.    (Sex sells, doesn't it.)

Think of all those lines that Henry Huntington built in the Southland under
the Pacific Electric banner to support his housing  
developments.   I think Donald Duke once told me that there was one  
line, perhaps Newport Beach or Huntington Beach that did not serve  
Huntington real estate.    All the rest did.

And then the automobile came and the transit promoters were no longer stupid
enough to follow the axiom, "build and they will come."

Remember how Toronto Railway, in the 1920s, refused to build into new  
areas because they felt there would be no profit in doing it.   That  
resulted in the formation of the Toronto Civic Railway, which eventually
bought out Toronto Railway, and became TTC.  (I do not  
remember which order.)    It was one of the earlier public transit  
agencies in the nation.

And how about the parent company of Pittsburgh Railways?   San  
Francisco's Market Street Railway, owned by United Railroads  (United was
the PRC founder), refused to build into certain parts of that city's Western
Addition feeling there was no money to be had.  So  
what happened?   The city formed the Municipal Railway in 1912 (I  
think that was the date) to provide service to those areas.  Lines B and C
ran out Geary to the ocean while K, L, M, N and J were south of  
Golden Gate Park.   Muni acquired Market Street Railway in 1944 and I  
think it is rather ironic that the lines running today are Muni  
lines; the Market Street lines were all abandoned after the war.    
One exception.  The new line on South Third Street restores service that
Market Street Railway abandoned before World War II.

I don't know enough about the Cleveland or Boston history to know if those
early public agencies resulted from attempts to build into virgin territory
or early solutions to business failures.

New York was the largest early public agency when Brooklyn and Queens
Transit / BMT and the Interborough Rapid Transit fell into city  
ownership in 1940.   That was more city political greed and  
manipulation under Mayor LaGuardia than any above board reasons.    
The city had previously built the Independent division of the subway  
starting about 1930-1933 competing with the IRT and BMT.   (Certainly  
you know I'm going to say that the city building a subway under the IRT's
subsidiary Manhattan Railway Corporation's 6th Avenue elevated  
is not fair competition and has political overtones.   Sounds to me  
like, "You'll do it our way or else.")


On Sep 12, 2008, at 10:51 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:

> Sort of reminds me of those CSL lines like Argo, which ran into the 
> prairies outside Chicago on open track, laid on "streets" mapped by 
> the city/ county, but not yet built.
>
> K.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Schneider Fred" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2008 7:19 AM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh one-man cars
>
>
>> Ed Lybarger mentioned that a year or so ago.   Brookline via South
>> Bank ran from Brookline Blvd and Queensboro Avenue to downtown via
>> the P&CS beginning September 12, 1910.   It was discontinued November
>> 1910 due to "traffic insufficient."   Nobody lived there that early.
>
>