[PRCo] Re: Neville Island

Edward H. Lybarger trams2 at comcast.net
Mon Apr 27 10:05:57 EDT 2009 

While this is not always the best source in terms of accuracy, the quote
here is more or less correct.  But lest you infer that they simply picked up
the Sewickley Loop and hauled it to Drake, I would remind readers that the
former was dead level and the latter had a very significant grade at the
entrance/exit, so a LOT of work was needed to make the girder rail comply
with the topography.  Rail bending is an art, especially the vertical
adjustment, but they did have the necessary equipment on hand to do it.  No
more.  PTM had to send the McClane Loop rail to SEPTA to be bent because
Port Authority couldn't do it.

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Herb
Brannon
Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:06 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Neville Island

>From "Pittsburgh Railways", pg 362, paragraphs 1 & 2, "Streetcar service to
Neville Island, Coraopolis and Sewickley lost passengers in the post WW2
years as ownership and use of private autos first returned to pre-war levels
and then continued to increase. But, in addition, Shafer Coach Lines more
directly hurt the #23 line by a policy of running buses on the same route,
same schedule and just ahead of the streetcars. PRCo made an effort to
regain these passengers by adding more cars and improving the schedule. The
bus company then went to the PUC and complained that it was unfair
competition on the part of PRCo. The PUC stood by the bus company.

By 1950, route 23 was eportedly losing $75,000.00 a year and the PUC was
encouraging more bus competition so PRCo abandoned the Sewickley line beyond
Graham Loop on 22 June 1952. The rail loop at the end of the bridge in
Sewickley was taken up and moved to Drake for the new loop there in
preparation for the Washington interurban cutback."
(End quote)

By 1950 there were many more than two vehicles on the road. Passenger
accidents did happen and as with all passenger accidents, were costly to
PRCo in addition to tarnishing the image of the company. Albeit the cosmetic
condition of the trolley fleet did give a tarnished image to PRCo  :-o



On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>
>> From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:18:50 PM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: derail
>>
>> I just passed it on. It's from the Pennsylvania Antiquie Motor Bus 
>> Group. Also, when it comes down to economic operation PRCo was 
>> content to run streetcars so long as some money could be made. They 
>> (PRCo) probably did not want to fight the competition on Neville 
>> Island and into Coraopolis. Neville Island running was slow and very 
>> unsafe given the location of the tracks and the fact that passengers 
>> were dropped off into a lane of fast moving autos. Single track (the 
>> main drawback to many PRCo routes) added extra minutes and increased 
>> accident exposure time. Running time with conventional cars was 58 
>> minutes (+/-), however, running time with PCCs increased to 65 minutes
(+/-).
>> The bus was most likely faster. The relationship between PRCo and the 
>> PUC was not the best either. Given that climate PRCo management 
>> probably did not shed many tears when the Neville Island, Coraopolis, 
>> Sewickley service was cut back to Island Avenue.
>>
> Mr.Brannon;
>
> I never saw Neville Island operations;  the photo on pg.171 of PCC 
> Coast to Coast shows an huge expanse of highway and only 2-motor 
> vehicles.  Prw is side of the road so passenger concern was one 
> direction only.  Operations should have been fast on the Island;  slow 
> in Coraopolis.  Old cars probably did at least tripper service until 
> and even including the cutback to 25-Island Avenue only as this was 
> accomplished in 1952.  I don't see PCCs being slower;  traffic in
Coraopolis would have been the main problem but could that account for an
additional 7-min?
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Mr.Brannon;
>> >
>> >
>> > Thank you very much for taking the time to prepare this report;  it 
>> > is very revealing isn't it.  The competing service of SCL and PRC 
>> > in Coraopolis not unlike that on the 62 in Trafford - the bus line 
>> > scheduled service just ahead of the trolley.  PRC should have 
>> > fought that on the basis of unfair service.  Seems strange today 
>> > that those antique buses could offer any competition to a trolley but
people like trying something new.
>> >
>> > Thanks again.
>> >
>> >
>> > Phil
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> ----- Original Message ----
>> >> From: Herb Brannon
>> >> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 4:31:34 PM
>> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: derail
>> >>
>> >> The following is from the Pennsylvania Antique Motor Bus Society:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Shafer Coach Lines (SCL) can trace its roots back to May of 1928 
>> >> when a small bus line was started by a Mr. Helsley to connect the 
>> >> Pittsburgh Railways Company (PRCo) streetcar line 23 in Coraopolis 
>> >> to Clinton which was 10 miles away. This two bus operation had its 
>> >> rights renewed for this feeder type service in 1930 but were not 
>> >> renewed after that so it is assumed that the service was abandoned 
>> >> between 1930 and 1932.
>> >>
>> >> The next attempt at a bus line in the Coraopolis area was made in 
>> >> 1937 by William A. Shafer, an operator of a trucking line. 
>> >> Applications were filed for 4 routes, one of which was Mr. Helsley's
old route.
>> >> Three of the routes were granted quickly by the PSC and by August 
>> >> of 1937, operations commenced on the original route, a 
>> >> Coraopolis-Imperial feeder, and a line from Coraopolis to 
>> >> Aliquippa via Broadhead Road. The 4th route was held up as the 
>> >> application was considered competitive to the PRCo 23 streetcar 
>> >> route as well as the fact that the Ohio River Motor Coach Company 
>> >> also applied for a similar route at the same time.
>> >>
>> >> The SCL was ultimately awarded the rights to the line over Ohio 
>> >> River Motor Coach in the summer of 1938 and service was started on 
>> >> this line after 5 new Beaver Coaches were delivered in August of 
>> >> 1938. This 4th line was considered the backbone of the SCL 
>> >> operation and ran from Aliquippa to Pittsburgh via Neville Island, 
>> >> McKees Rocks and the West End (similar to the 21A Coraopolis to
Aliquippa route of PAT today).
>> >>
>> >> An additional line was added in November of 1938 and went from 
>> >> McKees Rocks to Coraopolis and Sewickley via Kenmawr. The 
>> >> Coraopolis-Clinton line was also extended to Groveton at this time 
>> >> to provide extra service on a portion of the new line.
>> >>
>> >> The next major service changes for SCL occurred in 1943 when 2 of 
>> >> the feeder routes were cut back from their original termination 
>> >> points and a new route in October of 1943 was instituted from 
>> >> Coraopolis to the Mooncrest housing project.
>> >>
>> >> Although the PSC (later the PUC) tended to restrict local traffic 
>> >> on certain carriers if competition would result, the PRCo 
>> >> streetcar line
>> >> 23 and SCL had no such restriction outside of the City of Pittsburgh.
>> >> PRCo and SCL had what many would call a competition war, primarily 
>> >> in the Coraopolis area. SCL had similar headways and fares during 
>> >> the 1940's and 50's as the PRCo 23 line did. Based on events that 
>> >> occurred, it appeared that SCL had its buses scheduled just ahead 
>> >> of the PRCo streetcars and to counter the loss of ridership, PRCo 
>> >> increased service on the line. SCL filed a complaint with the PUC 
>> >> claiming that PRCo was engaging in unfair competition by 
>> >> increasing service on its line and the PUC upheld the complaint.
>> >>
>> >> The action by the PUC, as well as losing passengers, revenue and 
>> >> the fact that there was yet another application for a competitive 
>> >> bus service along its route (which was later denied by the PUC), 
>> >> made PRCo cut back the 23 line to Graham Loop on Neville Island 
>> >> and later to Fleming Park Loop in West Park. A short lived bus 
>> >> feeder was run from
>> >> 1953 to August 15, 1955 by PRCo from Fleming Park Loop to Graham 
>> >> Loop after the second cutback but was abandoned due to declining
ridership.
>> >> After the PRCo feeder was abandoned, SCL had exclusive service on 
>> >> Neville Island as well as Coraopolis.
>> >>
>> >> No major changes in service occurred for SCL for almost 20 years 
>> >> except for adjustments to accommodate changing traffic patterns, 
>> >> primarily the opening of the Fort Pitt Bridge in 1959. The only 
>> >> other notable event was a deviation on the 
>> >> Pittsburgh-Coraopolis-Airport line to serve Sharon Hill Manor in Moon
Township in 1963.
>> >>
>> >> It needs to be noted that the Airport service that SCL ran was 
>> >> heavily restricted as Airlines Transportation Company held rights 
>> >> to haul passengers to the Greater Pittsburgh Airport. SCL ran 
>> >> trips intended only for airline employees to get to and from work.
>> >>
>> >> SCL's equipment was in good shape and maintained exceptionally well.
>> >> They were one of the few Pittsburgh independents that exclusively 
>> >> operated transit buses without center doors which some call muzzle 
>> >> loaders. At takeover the SCL turned over 29 buses and 5 routes to PAT.
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> Acquired Equipment (with PAT number if re-numbered) Shafer 
>> >> NumberMakeModelYearPAT Number
>> >> 59BrillC-311951186
>> >> 61-62BrillC-311951194,197
>> >> 63-64BrillC-311951195,196
>> >> 65BrillC-311951198
>> >> 67BrillC-311951199
>> >> 69-71BeaverB-35-PT1952686-688
>> >> 72BeaverB-40-PT1953689
>> >> 73-78GMTDH37141954760-765
>> >> 79-80GMTDH45121955401-402
>> >> 81-82GMTDH45121956403-404
>> >> 83-84GMTDH45121957405-406
>> >> 85-86GMTDH45171960571-572
>> >> 87GMTDH45121955407
>> >> 88-89GMTDH45121953408-409
>> >> 90GMTDH45121955410
>> >>
>> >> Note: Coaches 88-90 were second hand.
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> Routes (shown with PAT numbers)
>> >> 21A Coraopolis
>> >> 21B Kenmawr
>> >> 25A Sewickley - Groveton
>> >> 25B Broadhead Road
>> >> 38A Airport Express
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Mr.Barry;
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > You always come up with very interesting photos don't you.
>> >> >
>> >> > It will take some time to study this photo;  only the one 
>> >> > overhead wire
>> curves
>> >> > onto the bridge.  The other wire could curve out of the picture 
>> >> > to allow
>> for
>> >> > overhang of car ends.  I have the collection of bus articles on 
>> >> > Pittsburgh; now I need to find them and see if 'Shafer' routes 
>> >> > can be identified.  Can
>> we
>> >> > deduce that trolleys are 4 times heavier than 'heavy' trucks?
>> >> >
>> >> > It is now very tricky to save huge files isn't it since one 
>> >> > can't right
>> click.  It
>> >> > is necessary to save parts and do a photo merge.  Must be an easier
way.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is a favorite of mine:
>> > http://tinyurl.com/1515on50SmithfieldWater
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Phil
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > > ----- Original Message ----
>> >> > > From: "Barry, Matthew R"
>> >> > > To: "pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org"
>> >> > > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 6:50:58 AM
>> >> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: derail
>> >> > >
>> >> > > I got the photo from the Historic Pittsburgh site.   There's a 
>> >> > > couple
>> more
>> >> > > interesting ones on there, such as this one...   anyone know the
bridge?
>> >> > > Here is the link to the new set on Historic Pittsburgh:
>> >> > >
>> >
>> http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx?c=ascgen&g=i
>> mls&page=index
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Matt
>> >> > >
>> >> > > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > > From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> >> > > [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On 
>> >> > > Behalf Of
>> Phillip
>> >> > > Clark Campbell
>> >> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:51 PM
>> >> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: derail
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Mr.Barry;
>> >> > >
>> >> > > Great photo isn't it; where did you find it?
>> >> > >
>> >> > >
> http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/bridge_restriction
> .jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>



--
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast

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