[PRCo] Re: PRCo Volumn 2

[Herb Brannon]

I have often wondered why all the waiting to get a good PRCo book published.
Both Ed S and John B., in their two posts, have outlined what needs to be
done. Anyone want to take it to the next step?? Why, there could even be a
meeting of the minds on how to get this book into print and onto private
bookshelves at some sort of a 'get together' at PTM in the near future.
The only sure thing that is going to happen is the death of everyone on this
list and for the majority this will happen 'sooner' rather than 'later'. At
that point I believe it would be safe to say that there will never be
a good PRCo book. I agree with Ed S. and John B. that this does need to be
done now.

On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:03 AM, John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>wrote:

> Ed's right - this needs to be done now.  I have lots of photos of the 1960s
> and quite a few earlier and later as well.  I currently make them available
> on eBay and anyone can buy one for $6.00 if they wait long enough.  I do
> this to supplement a rotten pension and allow myself to maintain most of my
> pre-retirement lifestyle.  I would make photos available to anyone who will
> publish a QUALITY book.  That eliminates Arcadia and probably Beal as well
> since there are issues I have with his (I'll be polite and call it
> "unauthorized use") of views in the first book.  For reproduction quality,
> view books like Fred's PCC books - that was quality reproduction.  Pretty
> much anything from Donald Duke (Golden West) is quality.  The recent Key
> System book from Signature Press is quality.  I can live with Yanosey's
> Morning Sun color books, but the color quality is almost always not nearly
> as good as almost anything the European's publish.  Publishing crap photos
> isn't worth the bother, whether anyone needs them or not - a book with crap
> photos will be browsed a few times at best - books with high quality photos
> are viewed over and over.
>
> I too would love to have a detailed history of Pittsburgh routes.  If the
> greater detail is only available from the time that route numbers were
> first
> assigned, then fine, do that, and leave the really old route stuff for a
> super-dedicated researcher to unearth down the road).  Same for the roster
> -
> I would want specific details from the beginning of the 4000s. Earlier fine
> iof available but if notm, then gerenal details only.  Headway and
> operations data from at least 1920 up would be preferred (and more likely
> to
> be available). A lot of PCC data (at least as regards REMOVAL from service)
> was published in Trolley fare by Dave Hamley - I have few issues in my
> collection but I kept those.
>
> As to computer spreadsheets, what I have is a list of 99.8% of the overall
> ad cars.  That project was being shepherded by Lee Gregory.  I think he
> went
> to England on a job for a year or 16 months and I also think he's still
> there but coming to the end of it, so that's probably why Ed thinks it's a
> dead project.  It may not be.  I have large numbers of views of these cars,
> many in color.  Lee has others in color.  As far as I know PTM has even
> more
> although Lee was probably counting those in his list of available views.
>
> Not all ad cars have been fully identified for colors, but it's being
> worked
> on - I keep my list completely up to date as I find additional info.  Many
> cars have no been identified by numbers, for example I do not have the car
> numbers used for County Fair cars for 1951, 1952, 19853, 1955 and 1958.  I
> am missing numbers for Civic Light Oper for 1947, 1948 (they MAY not
> exist),
> 1951, 1953, 1954, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959 and 1960.  Also, no number for
> Community Chest advert cars for 1947 (MAY not exist), 1950, 1951, 1952,
> 1953, 1954, 1955, nor for United Fund in 1959.
>
> Such a project needs a shepherd, someone living in Pennsylvania (doesn't
> have to be the western end, hint).  If (hint) won't do it, then PTM needs
> to
> find aq dedicated member.
>
>
> > From: Ed Skuchas <eskuchas at comcast.net>
> > Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:08:26 -0400
> > To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRCo Volumn 2
>  >
> > Just to clarify some of the discussions about this topic, and some
> > other thoughts.
> >
> > I do not believe that volume 2 is in production.  My notice about
> > volume 2 was dated awhile ago when it was on schedule.  It would have
> > been produced at that time, but some financial issues developed.
> > Obviously, the printer would not publish the text without a payment
> > plan.  To my knowledge, Vol 1 was paid for.  Ron's efforts to obtain
> > alternate financing to get the books published (which would have paid
> > for the financing) could not be completed.  There were also medical
> > complications in his family which were very costly.
> >
> > As for copies, I had purchased the last hard bound copies awhile ago,
> > and I am sold out.  Soft bound I believe is still available.  From
> > what has been posted, the museum has copies.  Buy them now before they
> > are gone.
> >
> > To avoid further excitement about a Pittsburgh book, I have asked that
> > the old web listing be eliminated.  There will still be the problem
> > with archived listings.
> >
> > I also understand that the other Pittsburgh book that was prepared by
> > Blaine Hayes(?) of Cleveland could not find a publisher.  About 6
> > years ago I heard about the book being prepared about Pittsburgh
> > advertising cars.  I gather that is also a lost cause since my efforts
> > to contact that author have gone unanswered.  Some of the fellows with
> > extensive photo collections indicated that they were supplying him
> > with photos.  I gather that effort is dead.
> >
> > What worries me is that the wonderful Pittsburgh photos and
> > information that many of us have as well as the extensive holdings of
> > the museum will go unused and not published or not made available via
> > the web.  I think that a few different Pittsburgh trolley books could
> > be considered.  Topics would be cars, routes and history.  I know that
> > John Bromley has prepared various car spreadsheets which are very
> > detailed.  Cramer (?) had published his soft cover book that covered
> > the Mt Washington lines.  I thought that it was very effective, and it
> > educated me about lines I did not see.  There are two issues about the
> > lines with a lot of  people: curiosity and remembrance.  I am too
> > young and was not from the area.  I only saw a Pittsburgh trolley
> > starting in the 70's.
> >
> > Various individuals have indicated that it would take a lot of time to
> > research all of the underlining companies to correctly prepare the
> > history.  I believe that is the least interesting portion of the book
> > and not why a Pittsburgh book would be purchased.  Cars, route shots
> > and photos will sell.
> >
> > So what do we really need:
> >
> > One page corporate history chart.
> > Photos of the various car types.
> > Vignettes about various car types.
> > Rosters
> > Route maps and Route Photos.  Detailed.  It may take 30 pages, not the
> > 8.5 x 11 current map.  Or, something the size of the combined
> > geological survey maps.
> > Car paint schemes--"standard colors"
> > Advertising schemes.  The varied schemes are far more interesting than
> > looking at the same scheme over and over again.
> >
> > We have a 5-15 year window for any of this information to be
> > considered.  After that, the Pittsburgh book that will be published
> > will be about the LRV's.  It's not gloom and doom, but the end of the
> > "what you remember" period.  There is a lot I do not know about the
> > system that I most likely will not ever learn.  I have been very happy
> > to see some of the individual efforts that have been shared on this
> > group.  I thoroughly enjoyed the photos of the Charleroi trestles and
> > right of way.  I hope other efforts will continue.
> >
> > I think the history of the PRCo may be one of the least interesting
> > topics to sell a book, so why worry about the research.  Work with all
> > of the information on hand.
> >
> > I  often thought that a simple process, although extensive, would be
> > to scan all of the photos and just post them on a massive web site.
> > Let the world identify them and constantly update the site.  I get
> > very discouraged about the inability of someone to post a photo to
> > show someone else, and having to pull the scan because it was taken by
> > someone else whose name has been forgotten.  I wanted to see some OE 4
> > truck loco photos that one web member had, but he pulled them because
> > he did not take them, he did not know if the photographer was alive or
> > dead.  So, he pulled the photos.  If the museum has all of this
> > information, it would be nice for the world to see them.  Perhaps,
> > grant money can be obtained so that purpose.  Or, sell DVD's of photos.
> >
> > Lets hope that some good Pittsburgh material will be published via
> > whatever printed or electronic media is available.
> >
> > Ed
> >
> >
> > On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:12 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
> >
> >> I saw this notice on a website owned by "The Berkshire Car Shop".
> >> They make
> >> HO scale streetcar bodies.
> >>
> >>
> >> PITTSBURGH RAILWAYS VOLUME TWO by Ron Beal will be available before
> >> Christmas.  Hardbound $80 /Special $64.  Softbound $65 / Special $52.
> >>
> >> If you did not purchase Volume One, very few are available.  Now is
> >> the time
> >> to purchase a copy! $64 hard / $52 soft.   If you act quickly, your
> >> can
> >> include a copy of McKeesport Trolleys by Beal for $25 (reg. $40
> >> retail )!
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Herb Brannon
> >> On America's North Coast
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>


-- 
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast