[PRCo] Re: PRCo Volumn 2

[John Bromley]

I'd vote for route lists, roster, operation details (headways, car types
assigned, carhouse assignments etc), so I guess the answer to your question
is YES.


> From: Ed Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 12:13:34 -0400
> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRCo Volumn 2
> 
> "Nothing is impossible to the person who doesn't have to do the work."
> 
> Are we wanting a history or a railfan book?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of Herb
> Brannon
> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:54 AM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRCo Volumn 2
> 
> I have often wondered why all the waiting to get a good PRCo book published.
> Both Ed S and John B., in their two posts, have outlined what needs to be
> done. Anyone want to take it to the next step?? Why, there could even be a
> meeting of the minds on how to get this book into print and onto private
> bookshelves at some sort of a 'get together' at PTM in the near future.
> The only sure thing that is going to happen is the death of everyone on this
> list and for the majority this will happen 'sooner' rather than 'later'. At
> that point I believe it would be safe to say that there will never be a good
> PRCo book. I agree with Ed S. and John B. that this does need to be done
> now.
> 
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:03 AM, John Bromley
> <johnfbromley at rogers.com>wrote:
> 
>> Ed's right - this needs to be done now.  I have lots of photos of the
>> 1960s and quite a few earlier and later as well.  I currently make
>> them available on eBay and anyone can buy one for $6.00 if they wait
>> long enough.  I do this to supplement a rotten pension and allow
>> myself to maintain most of my pre-retirement lifestyle.  I would make
>> photos available to anyone who will publish a QUALITY book.  That
>> eliminates Arcadia and probably Beal as well since there are issues I
>> have with his (I'll be polite and call it "unauthorized use") of views
>> in the first book.  For reproduction quality, view books like Fred's
>> PCC books - that was quality reproduction.  Pretty much anything from
>> Donald Duke (Golden West) is quality.  The recent Key System book from
>> Signature Press is quality.  I can live with Yanosey's Morning Sun
>> color books, but the color quality is almost always not nearly as good
>> as almost anything the European's publish.  Publishing crap photos
>> isn't worth the bother, whether anyone needs them or not - a book with
>> crap photos will be browsed a few times at best - books with high quality
> photos are viewed over and over.
>> 
>> I too would love to have a detailed history of Pittsburgh routes.  If
>> the greater detail is only available from the time that route numbers
>> were first assigned, then fine, do that, and leave the really old
>> route stuff for a super-dedicated researcher to unearth down the
>> road).  Same for the roster
>> -
>> I would want specific details from the beginning of the 4000s. Earlier
>> fine iof available but if notm, then gerenal details only.  Headway
>> and operations data from at least 1920 up would be preferred (and more
>> likely to be available). A lot of PCC data (at least as regards
>> REMOVAL from service) was published in Trolley fare by Dave Hamley - I
>> have few issues in my collection but I kept those.
>> 
>> As to computer spreadsheets, what I have is a list of 99.8% of the
>> overall ad cars.  That project was being shepherded by Lee Gregory.  I
>> think he went to England on a job for a year or 16 months and I also
>> think he's still there but coming to the end of it, so that's probably
>> why Ed thinks it's a dead project.  It may not be.  I have large
>> numbers of views of these cars, many in color.  Lee has others in
>> color.  As far as I know PTM has even more although Lee was probably
>> counting those in his list of available views.
>> 
>> Not all ad cars have been fully identified for colors, but it's being
>> worked on - I keep my list completely up to date as I find additional
>> info.  Many cars have no been identified by numbers, for example I do
>> not have the car numbers used for County Fair cars for 1951, 1952,
>> 19853, 1955 and 1958.  I am missing numbers for Civic Light Oper for
>> 1947, 1948 (they MAY not exist), 1951, 1953, 1954, 1956, 1957, 1958,
>> 1959 and 1960.  Also, no number for Community Chest advert cars for
>> 1947 (MAY not exist), 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1955, nor for
>> United Fund in 1959.
>> 
>> Such a project needs a shepherd, someone living in Pennsylvania
>> (doesn't have to be the western end, hint).  If (hint) won't do it,
>> then PTM needs to find aq dedicated member.
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Ed Skuchas <eskuchas at comcast.net>
>>> Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group
>>> <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 09:08:26 -0400
>>> To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRCo Volumn 2
>>> 
>>> Just to clarify some of the discussions about this topic, and some
>>> other thoughts.
>>> 
>>> I do not believe that volume 2 is in production.  My notice about
>>> volume 2 was dated awhile ago when it was on schedule.  It would
>>> have been produced at that time, but some financial issues developed.
>>> Obviously, the printer would not publish the text without a payment
>>> plan.  To my knowledge, Vol 1 was paid for.  Ron's efforts to obtain
>>> alternate financing to get the books published (which would have
>>> paid for the financing) could not be completed.  There were also
>>> medical complications in his family which were very costly.
>>> 
>>> As for copies, I had purchased the last hard bound copies awhile
>>> ago, and I am sold out.  Soft bound I believe is still available.
>>> From what has been posted, the museum has copies.  Buy them now
>>> before they are gone.
>>> 
>>> To avoid further excitement about a Pittsburgh book, I have asked
>>> that the old web listing be eliminated.  There will still be the
>>> problem with archived listings.
>>> 
>>> I also understand that the other Pittsburgh book that was prepared
>>> by Blaine Hayes(?) of Cleveland could not find a publisher.  About 6
>>> years ago I heard about the book being prepared about Pittsburgh
>>> advertising cars.  I gather that is also a lost cause since my
>>> efforts to contact that author have gone unanswered.  Some of the
>>> fellows with extensive photo collections indicated that they were
>>> supplying him with photos.  I gather that effort is dead.
>>> 
>>> What worries me is that the wonderful Pittsburgh photos and
>>> information that many of us have as well as the extensive holdings
>>> of the museum will go unused and not published or not made available
>>> via the web.  I think that a few different Pittsburgh trolley books
>>> could be considered.  Topics would be cars, routes and history.  I
>>> know that John Bromley has prepared various car spreadsheets which
>>> are very detailed.  Cramer (?) had published his soft cover book
>>> that covered the Mt Washington lines.  I thought that it was very
>>> effective, and it educated me about lines I did not see.  There are
>>> two issues about the lines with a lot of  people: curiosity and
>>> remembrance.  I am too young and was not from the area.  I only saw
>>> a Pittsburgh trolley starting in the 70's.
>>> 
>>> Various individuals have indicated that it would take a lot of time
>>> to research all of the underlining companies to correctly prepare
>>> the history.  I believe that is the least interesting portion of the
>>> book and not why a Pittsburgh book would be purchased.  Cars, route
>>> shots and photos will sell.
>>> 
>>> So what do we really need:
>>> 
>>> One page corporate history chart.
>>> Photos of the various car types.
>>> Vignettes about various car types.
>>> Rosters
>>> Route maps and Route Photos.  Detailed.  It may take 30 pages, not
>>> the
>>> 8.5 x 11 current map.  Or, something the size of the combined
>>> geological survey maps.
>>> Car paint schemes--"standard colors"
>>> Advertising schemes.  The varied schemes are far more interesting
>>> than looking at the same scheme over and over again.
>>> 
>>> We have a 5-15 year window for any of this information to be
>>> considered.  After that, the Pittsburgh book that will be published
>>> will be about the LRV's.  It's not gloom and doom, but the end of
>>> the "what you remember" period.  There is a lot I do not know about
>>> the system that I most likely will not ever learn.  I have been very
>>> happy to see some of the individual efforts that have been shared on
>>> this group.  I thoroughly enjoyed the photos of the Charleroi
>>> trestles and right of way.  I hope other efforts will continue.
>>> 
>>> I think the history of the PRCo may be one of the least interesting
>>> topics to sell a book, so why worry about the research.  Work with
>>> all of the information on hand.
>>> 
>>> I  often thought that a simple process, although extensive, would be
>>> to scan all of the photos and just post them on a massive web site.
>>> Let the world identify them and constantly update the site.  I get
>>> very discouraged about the inability of someone to post a photo to
>>> show someone else, and having to pull the scan because it was taken
>>> by someone else whose name has been forgotten.  I wanted to see some
>>> OE 4 truck loco photos that one web member had, but he pulled them
>>> because he did not take them, he did not know if the photographer
>>> was alive or dead.  So, he pulled the photos.  If the museum has all
>>> of this information, it would be nice for the world to see them.
>>> Perhaps, grant money can be obtained so that purpose.  Or, sell DVD's of
> photos.
>>> 
>>> Lets hope that some good Pittsburgh material will be published via
>>> whatever printed or electronic media is available.
>>> 
>>> Ed
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 21, 2009, at 11:12 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I saw this notice on a website owned by "The Berkshire Car Shop".
>>>> They make
>>>> HO scale streetcar bodies.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> PITTSBURGH RAILWAYS VOLUME TWO by Ron Beal will be available before
>>>> Christmas.  Hardbound $80 /Special $64.  Softbound $65 / Special $52.
>>>> 
>>>> If you did not purchase Volume One, very few are available.  Now is
>>>> the time
>>>> to purchase a copy! $64 hard / $52 soft.   If you act quickly, your
>>>> can
>>>> include a copy of McKeesport Trolleys by Beal for $25 (reg. $40
>>>> retail )!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Herb Brannon
>>>> On America's North Coast
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Herb Brannon
> On America's North Coast
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>