[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

Fri Aug 28 23:35:49 EDT 2009

See Fred's original message.  I started at the bottom and worked my way up.  Others would interspace comments.

Cheers

John

> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:29:58 -0400
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> From: hrbran at cavtel.net
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> 
> That first paragraph certainly clears up the destination sign conversations.
> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 11:24 PM, John Swindler <j_swindler at hotmail.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and hopefully
> > not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating rookies
> > and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a night after
> > about the first quarter last weekend. They might play half the game
> > Saturday night, then the first string will just make a cameo appearance for
> > the final pre-season game. The real games start in two weeks.
> >
> >
> >
> > PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to around 66
> > million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day during
> > that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on Overbrook nor
> > Beechview.
> >
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> > > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> > > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
> > > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > >
> > > Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
> > >
> > > Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
> > > guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
> > > eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
> > > results are misleading but we try.
> > >
> > > By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
> > > and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
> > > transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
> > > riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
> > > back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
> > > the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
> > > impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
> > > year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
> > > how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
> > > never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
> > > system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
> > > voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
> > > represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or SEPTA,
> > > it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40 years
> > > as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
> > > federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
> > > that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
> > > cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
> > > to redefine operating costs. Right John?
> > >
> > > The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my not so
> > > silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
> > > grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
> > > federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
> > > system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
> > > time, guys.
> > >
> > > Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
> > > change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
> > >
> > > And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we have him
> > > in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
> > >
> > > Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
> > > I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
> > > interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
> > > like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx Expressway
> > > or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay
> > > Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
> > > cite the expressways in Chicago.
> > >
> > > But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
> > > based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
> > > great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
> > > hours with a heavy foot.
> > >
> > > And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
> > > place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
> > >
> > > And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
> > > game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
> > > something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
> > > upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
> > > was spending most of the time watching something more interesting on
> > > PBS.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
> > > > Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
> > > >> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
> > > >> railfan hinding in the staff ...
> > > >
> > > > Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
> > > >> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
> > > >> Knoxville.
> > > >> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to quite
> > > >> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
> > > >
> > > > I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates with
> > > > mileage-based exit numbers which work out
> > > > to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
> > > >
> > > >> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in place
> > > >> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as bad as
> > > >> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for almost as
> > > >> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
> > > >> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
> > > >
> > > > In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your old 11D
> > > > may not be your new bus for the same ride.
> > > >
> > > >> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are not
> > > >> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
> > > >> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
> > > >> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
> > > >> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
> > > >> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
> > > >
> > > > Some are. Many aren't.
> > > >
> > > >> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding past the
> > > >> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
> > > >> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale, routes 18,
> > > >> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
> > > >
> > > > Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this point,
> > > > in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time reading
> > > > it.
> > > >
> > > > Derrick
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >
> > http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Herb Brannon
> On America's North Coast
> 
> 

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you’re up to on Facebook.
http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009