[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

[Ken and Tracie]

I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."

K.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan


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> One I heard about but never photographed:
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> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
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> But one I did see and liked was:
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> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
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> with express in green background.
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>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
>>
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>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and hopefully 
>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating 
>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a 
>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play half 
>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a cameo 
>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in two 
>> weeks.
>>
>>
>>
>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to around 66 
>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day 
>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on Overbrook nor 
>> Beechview.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
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>> > From: fwschneider at comcast.net
>> > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
>> > Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
>> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> >
>> > Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
>> >
>> > Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
>> > guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
>> > eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
>> > results are misleading but we try.
>> >
>> > By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
>> > and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
>> > transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
>> > riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
>> > back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
>> > the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
>> > impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
>> > year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
>> > how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
>> > never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
>> > system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
>> > voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
>> > represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or SEPTA,
>> > it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40 years
>> > as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
>> > federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
>> > that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
>> > cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
>> > to redefine operating costs. Right John?
>> >
>> > The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my not so
>> > silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
>> > grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
>> > federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
>> > system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
>> > time, guys.
>> >
>> > Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
>> > change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
>> >
>> > And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we have him
>> > in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
>> >
>> > Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
>> > I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
>> > interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
>> > like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx Expressway
>> > or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco - Oakland Bay
>> > Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
>> > cite the expressways in Chicago.
>> >
>> > But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
>> > based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
>> > great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
>> > hours with a heavy foot.
>> >
>> > And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
>> > place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
>> >
>> > And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
>> > game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
>> > something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
>> > upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
>> > was spending most of the time watching something more interesting on
>> > PBS.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
>> >
>> > > On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
>> > > Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
>> > >> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
>> > >> railfan hinding in the staff ...
>> > >
>> > > Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
>> > >> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
>> > >> Knoxville.
>> > >> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to quite
>> > >> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
>> > >
>> > > I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates with
>> > > mileage-based exit numbers which work out
>> > > to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
>> > >
>> > >> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in 
>> > >> place
>> > >> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as bad as
>> > >> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for almost 
>> > >> as
>> > >> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
>> > >> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
>> > >
>> > > In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your old 11D
>> > > may not be your new bus for the same ride.
>> > >
>> > >> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are 
>> > >> not
>> > >> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
>> > >> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
>> > >> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
>> > >> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
>> > >> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
>> > >
>> > > Some are. Many aren't.
>> > >
>> > >> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding past the
>> > >> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
>> > >> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale, routes 18,
>> > >> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
>> > >
>> > > Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this point,
>> > > in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time reading
>> > > it.
>> > >
>> > > Derrick
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
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