[PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan

Sun Aug 30 14:10:27 EDT 2009

That's why I said they need to do an "in-depth" reading of the thread.
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 10:59 AM, John Bromley <johnfbromley at rogers.com>wrote:

> This has already been revealed - TWICE.  I even said I have several photos
> (which include, by the way, a non-fantrip shot of 1652 doing exactly this).
> I've attached it.
> Doesn't anyone read what is said?
>
>
> > From: Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> > Reply-To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> > Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 10:42:34 -0400
> > To: Pittsburgh Railways Group <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
>  > Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >
> >
> > And I was told that one morning, in lieu of CAR HOUSE, one motorman
> > actually was seen returning to base at the end of the morning rush
> > hour with GOTHAM CITY VIA BAT CAVE rolled up.
> >
> >
> > On Aug 30, 2009, at 12:54 AM, Ken and Tracie wrote:
> >
> >> I've seen a photo of one reading, "Toonerville."
> >>
> >> K.
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Swindler" <j_swindler at hotmail.com>
> >> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org>
> >> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:40 PM
> >> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> One I heard about but never photographed:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2 Grandma's House via The Woods.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But one I did see and liked was:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 86 Wilkinsburg via Subway  EXPRESS
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> with express in green background.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> From: j_swindler at hotmail.com
> >>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 23:24:40 -0400
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Pre-season games are to 'tune-up' the first string players, and
> >>>> hopefully
> >>>> not suffer any injuries, but most of these games involves evaluating
> >>>> rookies and free agents. The first string for both teams called it a
> >>>> night after about the first quarter last weekend. They might play
> >>>> half
> >>>> the game Saturday night, then the first string will just make a
> >>>> cameo
> >>>> appearance for the final pre-season game. The real games start in
> >>>> two
> >>>> weeks.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> PAT went from around 115 million annual riders mid-1970s to
> >>>> around 66
> >>>> million last year. Rail ridership has hovered around 25,000 per day
> >>>> during that time frame. The system loss has not occurred on
> >>>> Overbrook nor
> >>>> Beechview.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> From: fwschneider at comcast.net
> >>>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Allegheny County's new Transit Development Plan
> >>>>> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:59:24 -0400
> >>>>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Chuckle, chuckle, chuckle. Love it Derrick.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Having worked all my life as an number cruncher / analyst .... I
> >>>>> guess I feel I never wasted too much time looking at numbers if I
> >>>>> eventually was able to pull out the right answer. Sometimes the
> >>>>> results are misleading but we try.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> By the way ... passenger counts ... the one thing I could have said
> >>>>> and I did not is that we are now pretty much cognizant that mass
> >>>>> transit riders do prefer rail over bus ... we can now show that
> >>>>> riding went down when we converted lines from rail to bus and came
> >>>>> back up again in the same corridors when we went back to rail. In
> >>>>> the case of Charlotte, NC, building a light rail line cause such
> >>>>> impressive riding that the entire system ridership doubled in one
> >>>>> year. But I think it is also very safe to say that, regardless of
> >>>>> how much the public may like these new systems, riding levels will
> >>>>> never be at the point where they can support a privately owned
> >>>>> system. And government has to answer to the tax payers and the
> >>>>> voters. The TWU and the NAACP and other civil rights coalitions
> >>>>> represent large blocka of voters so when you take over PAT or
> >>>>> SEPTA,
> >>>>> it is easier to run empty buses over the same old routes for 40
> >>>>> years
> >>>>> as long as you can shift the burden of payment to the state and
> >>>>> federal governments. And the local boys tried for years to shift
> >>>>> that expense until FTA screamed that they wanted fares to at least
> >>>>> cover one-third of operating costs and then the locals simply tried
> >>>>> to redefine operating costs. Right John?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The renumbering of routes in Allegheny County reflects, in my
> >>>>> not so
> >>>>> silent or humble opinion, a reflection that PAT has finally come to
> >>>>> grips with the fact that they can no longer shift to the state and
> >>>>> federal government the burden of financing of a bloated transit
> >>>>> system that needs to be reduced to a smaller number of lines. About
> >>>>> time, guys.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Beyond reducing it's size, I don't expect to see any substantive
> >>>>> change until we recognize that oil resources are finite.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And who is Fred Mergner and if he is a railfan, why don't we
> >>>>> have him
> >>>>> in the museum and in this group of loony fellows?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Urban interstates? Whole different issue than rural interstates.
> >>>>> I truly love the scheme of mileage based exit numbers for rural
> >>>>> interstates but it does fall apart in places when you are on things
> >>>>> like the Roosevelt Highway in Manhattan or the Cross Bronx
> >>>>> Expressway
> >>>>> or the exits coming off either end of the San Francisco -
> >>>>> Oakland Bay
> >>>>> Bridge. Jones Falls in Baltimore is another. And Bob Rathke could
> >>>>> cite the expressways in Chicago.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But for rural interstates, my personal conviction is that mileage
> >>>>> based exit numbers is the best scheme the cat dragged home. It's
> >>>>> great to get on at 232 and know I can make it to 495 in about four
> >>>>> hours with a heavy foot.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And to Matt Barry: The fact that I responded to this in the first
> >>>>> place is my way of saying thanks for the post. I enjoyed it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And what happened in the last half of the pre-season demonstration
> >>>>> game with the Steelers the other night? It went from 10-3 or
> >>>>> something like that over the Ravens in the first half to a total
> >>>>> upset by the final goal. I thought it wasn't going to change so I
> >>>>> was spending most of the time watching something more
> >>>>> interesting on
> >>>>> PBS.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Aug 28, 2009, at 5:07 PM, Derrick Brashear wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 28, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Schneider
> >>>>>> Fred<fwschneider at comcast.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> Very interesting ... in some respects one would think there is a
> >>>>>>> railfan hinding in the staff ...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Wonder if Fred Mergner is still there.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 8 Perrysville, 39 Brookline, 78
> >>>>>>> Oakmont (gone since the earth was cooling), 40 Mt. Washington, 44
> >>>>>>> Knoxville.
> >>>>>>> I guess I have two thoughts. The positive one is its good to
> >>>>>>> quite
> >>>>>>> confusing the riders with 11A, 11B, 11C, 11D, 11E ... °.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wonder why we decided to confuse people on urban interstates
> >>>>>> with
> >>>>>> mileage-based exit numbers which work out
> >>>>>> to 1A, 1B, 1C, 1D (quick, which one is Grant St?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The negative is do we really have to mess with what has been in
> >>>>>>> place
> >>>>>>> since 1964 ... it's been there for 45 years now. This is as
> >>>>>>> bad as
> >>>>>>> PAT screwing with what Pittsburgh Railways had in place for
> >>>>>>> almost
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>> long. By now the public has no recollection of 8 PERRYSVILLE but
> >>>>>>> they do understand 11D PERRYSVILLE AVENUE.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In many cases, the routes are not the same anymore, so, your
> >>>>>> old 11D
> >>>>>> may not be your new bus for the same ride.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The other thing very obvious to me is that the routes of yore are
> >>>>>>> not
> >>>>>>> the routes of today. If you pull out a contemporary transit guide
> >>>>>>> and compare it to a 1955 Pittsburgh Railways map, where we run to
> >>>>>>> today isn't where we ran to back then. The demand today isn't the
> >>>>>>> same as it was then. Almost a half a century has elapsed and the
> >>>>>>> PAT service area has lost close to a million people.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some are. Many aren't.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I would really like to see comparisons in peak hour riding
> >>>>>>> past the
> >>>>>>> maximum load point in 1945, 1960 and 2009 for Perrysville,
> >>>>>>> Frankstown, Ellsworth, Lincoln, Butler Street, Millvale,
> >>>>>>> routes 18,
> >>>>>>> 19 and 20 which is all one route today, and the 2nd Avenue lines.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Some 2007 numbers were in the TDP documents leading up to this
> >>>>>> point,
> >>>>>> in the alternatives analysis. I wasted entirely too much time
> >>>>>> reading
> >>>>>> it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Derrick
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >>>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
> >>>> form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSC
> >>>> ashback_1x1
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
> >>> Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
> >>> http://www.bing.com/cashback?
> >>> form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYCB_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCa
> >>> shback_1x1
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> -- Attached file removed by Ecartis and put at URL below --
> -- Type: multipart/appledouble
> -- Size: 614k (629436 bytes)
> -- URL : http://lists.dementia.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/ecartOnx9cI
>
>
>
>

-- 
Herb Brannon
On America's North Coast