[PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh car trucks
Phillip Clark Campbell
pcc_sr at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 14 13:34:56 EDT 2009
Mr.Schneider;
I am thinking along similar lines. I checked various rosters to
glean some more information. Here is what you wrote in your
general roster (available in the photo section of the list)
concerning groups 23-37:
"Seating capacities and weights varied greatly over time due to
changes in propulsion hardware and attempts to make cars
more amenable to the public."
Is it possible that MU capabilities added weight? But why only the
3750s and 5000 weigh more? One would speculate that the
5000s and 5100s should also weigh more.
A roster table prepared by Charles J.Murphy 18-Sep-1944 lists
the following weights:
3700s -- 47,000 -- Brill Interurbans 26" wheels
3750s -- 40,000
3800s -- 48,500 -- 28" wheels
5000s -- 36,000
5100s -- 36,000
5200s -- 39,000
5400s -- 35,000
5500s -- ???
A roster dated 10-Aug-1963 by Harold Buckley, Harry Bartley,
Charles Dengler, Henry Leinback, Charles Murphy, C.R.Cummings
lists the same weights as above; 35,000 given for 5500s.
It now seems significant that the 3750s and 5200s weigh in
a ton or two more than the others.
An extensive roster (prepared by Mr.Hamley?) lists the following:
3750s -- 44,000
5000s -- 40,500
5100s -- 40,500
5200s -- 40,500
5400s -- 39,000
5500s -- 39,500
The 3750s still top the weight list; 4700s up about 38,000.
PCCs crept upward in weight as well.
Phil
Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
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........7th President, U.S.A.
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________________________________
From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2009 9:20:33 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh car trucks
But they might have added 500 pounds. Now take away one seat or two
for toilet and you've lost 500 pounds. Now add the toilet and the
partition walls.
I do not know if those weights were real or perhaps they were off the
freight weigh bills when the cars were shipped? Or maybe they are
calculated weights. But I think that perhaps the real difference is
that the weight on the 5000 order is too low and if we compare the
3750s to the 5100s and 5200s .... seems to be ... and please
correct me if I'm wrong ... didn't the 3750s have forward facing
seats in the front half of the car while the city versions had
longitudinal seats to make more room for standees. That could easily
account for 1000 to 1500 pounds difference because there are no steel
seat frames below the cushion ... the base cushion simply sat on a
light wooden frame on the city cars.
Now, lets follow that theme a little farther ... was the seating in
the 5000s different from the 5100s and 5200s? I thought all the city
cars were the same but my experience was really with 5500s out of
Keating. The 5200s were a Ingram or Bunkerhill. I didn't ride
those lines in the rush hour. The 5100s virtually were all out of
service when I was riding. I don't remember where the 5000s
were ... Millvale maybe. Some were at Tunnel. I maybe have ridden
a 5000 out of Tunnel but I was too damn busy looking out the front
window to pay attention to seating.
On Jul 14, 2009, at 8:24 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
> By themselves, I doubt that they accounted for 2-1/2 tons. But I
> dunno.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
> Mark
> McGuire
> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 11:45 PM
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh car trucks
>
> Wouldn't the high back seats be considerably heavier than the
> standard
> rataan(sp) seats?
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Pittsburgh car trucks
> Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2009 09:17:35 -0400
>
> I looked at that too and questioned it. I wondered if the toilet
> and the extra partitions weighed more than the seats they replaced?
> The larger pinion gears and smaller bull gears would probably be
> offsetting so that probably doesn't matter.. We've also added field
> weakening coils and contactors but I too have trouble believing
> that all the
> minor modifications added up up 4500 pounds.
>
> My suspicion is that the discrepancy isn't really 4500 but closer
> to 1800.
>
> Notice, Ed, that the weights of the 5000s, the 5100s and the 5200s are
> inconsistent and all four groups of cars (including the 3750s) were
> multiple
> unit cars with the identical control package and couplers.
>
> The 5400s and 5500s came with K control and should have weighed about
> the same. The 4800-4939 group were designed to tow trailers and had
> K-43 control and the couplers were different. The 4700s were
> single door cars with Jones control. I suspect that even though the
> list was updated to 1937, the cars were never put on a scale after
> the 4700s
> and 4800s had new front doors added.
>
> On Jul 13, 2009, at 8:50 AM, Edward H. Lybarger wrote:
>
>> What no one has been able to successfully explain to me is why the
>> 3750s are listed as being 5000 pounds heavier as essentially
>> identical
>> low floor cars in other series. We encountered this discrepancy when
>> we were looking at things for 4398 a few years ago.
>>
>> I do not believe that there was that much difference in the weights.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org
>> [mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementia.org] On Behalf Of
>> Schneider Fred
>> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 10:16 PM
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Subject: [PRCo] Pittsburgh car trucks
>>
>> Do not know if I ever put this on line before ... might be useful to
>> some of you.
>> Comes from a Pittsburgh Railways drawing created in 1926 and revised
>> in 1935.
>>
>> Shows car series numbers, trucks, and car weights:
>>
>> Purfesseur Fred
>>
>> SERIES TRUCK CAR WEIGHT
>>
>> 3100 Bemis 48,000
>>
>> 3400 Bemis 50,000
>>
>> 3500 St. Louis 58,000
>>
>> 3600 Baldwin 71,900
>>
>> 3700 M-26 27" dia. 49,000
>>
>> 3750 M-25 45,000
>>
>> 3800 M-27 49,500
>>
>> 4000 Brill 49-E-2 48,000
>>
>> 4100 Standard CP-50 48,000
>>
>> 4200 M-25 40,000
>>
>> 4250 M-25 40,000
>>
>> 4300 M-25 40,000
>>
>> 4350 M-25 41,000
>>
>> 4400 M-25 40,000
>>
>> 4700 M-25 38,000
>>
>> 48-4900 M-25 39,000
>>
>> 5000 M-25 43,200
>>
>> 5100 M-25 40,500
>>
>> 5200 M-25 40,500
>>
>> 5400 M-25 40,000
>>
>> 5500 M-25 40,000
>>
>> B200 M-25 28,000
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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