[PRCo] Re: Dallas
Phillip Clark Campbell
pcc_sr at yahoo.com
Sat Sep 26 20:24:52 EDT 2009
Mr.Schneider;
This is fascinating; they are actually inserting a low-floor section into
a standard-floor car. It is a shame the original cars are this old; I
understand the concern about longevity of the 'half-breed.'
Some of the transit systems are more efficiently operated than
others; maybe this is the case with DART and these cars will
last longer than expected. I understand your reasoning and
deductions casting doubt about service life.
San Francisco and Boston could do this as well to make the
cars more ADA accessible; age of current behicles works
against this possibility. San Francisco has the added problem
of all high-platform loading in the subway; an ADA passenger
would need to get from the low-floor to standard-floor section
when traveling between the subway and surface. Always
challenges aren't there.
Phil
Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
________________________________
From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 5:00:47 PM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Dallas
I do not remember who built the original Dallas cars. The low-floor
center sections are new. They go with the on-going conversion to
low-level platforms throughout the entire DART system.
If I am not making myself totally clear ... they are adding the
center section, lengthening the trains, and then removing the
handicapped lifts or high level facilities at the stations because
now everyone will be able to get on the cars at the middle of the train.
I am on DART's e-mail news release list. I've seen the
announcements. But if you were to ask me when will the conversion
be 100% completed, I don't know.
This approach is not uncommon. I first saw the Europeans doing the
same thing ... I think it was in Tallin, Estonia that I first saw low-
floor center sections being added to cars.
Unfortunately, this approach never has lasted long because the end
sections of the cars are already old when you do it. The original
single truck cars that Boston converted to two-bedroom and bath cars
to make them more labor efficient around the turn on the century
didn't buy many more years because they were junk to start with.
Pittsburgh's splice cars 2100 and 2101 didn't last long either
because they built them out of worn out wooden bodies. DART is
apparently attempting to prolong the life of 40 cars built in 1996
and 75 more built in 2001-2002.
To put their age into perspective ... the first cars now are 13 years
old. That is older than the original 25 Dallas PCC cars were when
streetcars were abandoned in Dallas in 1956. That's about one year
less than Vancouver got out of its PCCs. Its the longevity of the
600 PCCs that Chicago bought after World War II. We are now at
65% of the life of the Brooklyn PCCs or the Pittsburgh 1000s or 1100s.
Granted there are exceptions but in an environment where the federal
government pays you to throw away equipment and buy new vehicles, I
would not count on those rebuilds being around for two long.
If you want the details, here is the fact sheet that DART released.
http://www.dart.org/factsheet/slrv/default.asp
On Sep 26, 2009, at 5:59 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
> I don't always understand computers; this was sent
> 'successfully' early in the AM yet does not appear in my
> inbox nor sent folders, just the draft. This is a retry; my
> apologies if this is a second copy.
>
>
>> From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>> To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
>> Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 6:39:22 AM
>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Dallas .... first service to Fair Park ...
>> enlarge one of those jpeg or tiff photos ... they're great.
>
>> I do not know what your point is Phil.
>
>> If it is the high level loading in Dallas, forget it.
>> DART is converting the entire system to
>> low floor loading.
>
> ...so says Mr.Schneider. What do the references
> from the website say in the form of these Urls?
>
> It appears that the bulk of the car is standard floor.
> It appears that the car is double articulated.
> It also appears that only the very center section
> of the car is low floor.
> It appears that the bulk of the car - each end before
> the articulation - is standard floor.
> Thus the system is not low-floor but 25%-low-floor.
> 2-3-steps very much in evidence.
> Doors appear to slide into a well.
>
> Who manufactures these cars?
>
> I like this configuration.
>
> http://www.dart.org/images/newsroom/preview/fairparkevening.jpg
>
> http://www.dart.org/images/newsroom/greenlineart/preview/
> supersaturdayboarding.jpg
>
> http://www.dart.org/newsroom/greenlinemediakit/images/preview/
> PorcariDARTTour.jpg
>
> http://www.dart.org/newsroom/greenlinemediakit/images/preview/
> lrtnorthdeepellum.jpg
>
> On the other hand Portland is listed as a 70% low-floor
> car, double articulated. Only the very end of the car over
> the power truck is standard floor; all the rest of the car is
> low-floor which including the center section between the
> articulated joints and beyond the articulation to the
> power truck.
>
>
>
> Phil
> Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
>
> ________________________________
>
>
>>> From: Schneider Fred <fwschneider at comcast.net>
>>> To: Skip Gatermann <biker4 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> Cc: Mike Schreiber <m11h16s45 at aol.com>; Michael Greene
>>> <michael_t_greene at yahoo.com>; Matt Dawn <mwntrolley at aol.com>;
>>> Conrad Misek <crmisek at aol.com>; Joe Bux <baybridgecondo3 at aol.com>;
>>> Frank Pfuhler <PFUHLER at MSN.COM>; E Casey <ecasey9631 at aol.com>; Vic
>>> Gordon <lipizzansvt2 at aol.com>; David Dillard <jwne at temple.edu>;
>>> John Sikorskie <sparkyberadi at aol.com>; Jim Greller
>>> <jcgreller at hcia.org>; Randy Gluckman <randygluck1 at aol.com>; Bob
>>> Vogel <chuchubob at yahoo.com>; Bradley Clark <bhc1 at aol.com>; Mary
>>> O'Brien <maryobrien at charter.net>; Jimmy Boylan XX
>>> <jamesboylan at compuserve.com>; Bill Armstrong <wja1933 at juno.com>;
>>> Richard Panse <brtpcc at mac.com>; Alex Vaughn
>>> <alexlvaughn at yahoo.com>; Brad Noyes <nozze4 at att.net>; Bill
>>> Mangahas <newkirk at optonline.net>; JJ Earl <dukeoq at aol.com>; Joseph
>>> Frank <nycmodeltransit at webtv.net>; Jack Rush XX <rush123 at cox.net>;
>>> Mark Goldfeder <frgs4evr at aol.com>; Andrew Chalfen
>>> <chalfen at pobox.upenn.edu>; Michael Rambo Jr <mrambojr at yahoo.com>;
>>> Ted
>> Eickmann <twe2431 at sbcglobal.net>; Bill Paulus
>> <studedude43 at hotmail.com>; Muench <cemuench2 at comcast.net>; Bruce
>> Bente <bbente at bellsouth.net>; Raleigh Dadamo <dadamor at aol.com>;
>> David Horwitz <air2619 at aol.com>; David Pirmann
>> <pirmann at quuxuum.org>; Neil Carlson <ndc10169 at webtv.net>; Chris
>> Gatermann <cgatermann at yahoo.com>; Robert Arce <r516169 at yahoo.com>;
>> KELVIN WILKE <kwilke4 at sbcglobal.net>; Raymond Crapo Jr
>> <raycrapo at prodigy.net>; Carlos Mercado <cmercado at rochester.rr.com>;
>> Merill Resnick <mhr62 at aol.com>; Jack May <jack.may at americomm.net>;
>> Lewis Hitch <lewis.hitch at verizon.net>; Michael Richmond
>> <neosho_wildcat_graduate_2007 at yahoo.com>; Thurston Clark
>> <trolleydude1 at yahoo.com>; Edward Havens <edhavens at cox.net>; Jeff
>> Marinoff <jeffmarinoff at yahoo.com>; Harry Pinsker <hp1944 at aol.com>;
>>> Joseph Eid <jeidj at comcast.net>; Scott Becker <sbecker at pa-
>> trolley.org>; William Young <wbyoung at mindspring.com>; Russ Jackson
>>> <rejmhj at netzero.net>; C. K. Leverett
>>> <cleverett at comcast.net>; Charles Greene
>>> <charles.greene99 at gmail.com>; Ronald Kupin <ronkup at hotmail.com>;
>>> Nate Gerstein <atsnate at comcast.net>; Melvin Bernero
>>> <mbernero at prodigy.net>; Favorite Daugher <cue37 at charter.net>;
>>> George Boucher <berasltm18 at sbcglobal.net>; Rich Parente
>>> <urr316 at optonline.net>; Evan Jennings <evan at tmny.org>; Harold Golk
>>> <haroldgolk at comcast.net>; Matthew Mummert <mlmummert at comcast.net>;
>>> Bob Paradise <rjp500 at snet.net>; Bill Volkmer
>>> <bvolkmer at bellsouth.net>; Andrew Sisk <asisk at sbcglobal.net>;
>>> Charlie Dennis <cdennis220 at aol.com>; Herald Wind
>>> <hlwind384 at comcast.net>; Bill Myers <TrolleyBill77 at cs.com>; Tom
>>> Gatermann <tgatermann at gmail.com>; Edward Davis
>> <biged_IRT5543 at bresnan.net>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 1:10:57 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Dallas .... first service to Fair Park ... enlarge
>>> one of those jpeg or tiff photos ... they're great.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.dart.org/newsroom/greenlinemediakit/default.asp#images
>>
>>
>> On Sep 25, 2009, at 10:38 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
>>
>> http://www.dart.org/riding/accessibility.asp#rail
>>
>>
>>
>> Phil
>> Without a 'coast' but not a 'cause.'
>
>
>
>
>
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