[PRCo] Re: PRC 3761 Southbound at Allenport Siding, July 27, 1952

Sat Dec 10 10:12:20 EST 2011

"Janis"--Mr.Lybarger--nice to have a name with the 'description.'  I know
your comments were jocular.
Incredibly nice "work"--if one may use that term--are you ready for the
next set of unknowns?  I did see many photographs that aren't identified.

In the archives everyone was uncomfortable with the Mapleview possibility
but everyone seemed to agree the track layout fit that location best.  The
photo in the PCC book labeled "Allenport" is what prevented me from looking
further.  Yesterday--when I found the same photo labeled "Mapleview"--I
realized something was amiss.

Mr.Schneider--not a complaint--please do not be concerned with the error.
The PCC books are excellent.  To proof all locations for world pictures seems
like an insurmountable task.

I looked at Mr.Phillips maps again; many are labeled "circa 1933."  It seems
what he drafted is very accurate for the time.

Please don't take me seriously about unknown photos--it is just an observation.

We were living in Allenport when I was born but when 2-3-years old we moved
further north on the Charleroi line.  Dad passed when I was a teen so my
responsibilities and education prevented railfan opportunities.  I do have 
fond memories.  Dad did say he rode the Charleroi car through Mt.Lebanon
and Beechview--being a tease I didn't believe him until I found documentation
for this route.

Interesting also--PCC 1707 in the same location as 3761--has the destination
sign set correctly--"Pgh."  Route foremen were abundant; setting signs
properly was the rule and not an exception.  Roll signs wear with age and
"slip" from their setting don't they sometimes displaying what appears like
two conflicting routes.  But the operator wouldn't be aware of that would he.

PRC was quite professional at all levels.  To be sure bad apples are everywhere
aren't they.  PRC seemed to deal with this.  The professional attitude was
present in the early Pat years into the 1970s; Pgh seemed a cut above many
other transit systems I have seen.

Phil

________________________________
 From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2011 8:50 AM
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRC 3761 Southbound at Allenport Siding, July 27, 1952

"Distractions" is used tongue in cheek.  Being retired and without a
regimented schedule, everything I do is a distraction, especially a noontime
excursion to Allenport!  Since Janis is still working, there's no schedule
conflict.

But as I've said on numerous occasions, being retired means that I don't
know when I ever had time to work.  I simply don't understand folks who
retire and complain about being bored.

-----Original Message-----
From: pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org
[mailto:pittsburgh-railways-bounce at lists.dementix.org] On Behalf Of Phillip
Clark Campbell
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 4:12 PM
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
Subject: [PRCo] Re: PRC 3761 Southbound at Allenport Siding, July 27, 1952

Incredibly nice work, Mr.Lybarger; where do I write a letter of commendation
and recommendation for promotion?

Phil

ps - can you share her name--your distraction?  Please give her "Thanks" for
allowing this mission on your lunch hour.

________________________________
From: Edward H. Lybarger <trams2 at comcast.net>
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 3:29 PM
Subject: [PRCo] PRC 3761 Southbound at Allenport Siding, July 27, 1952
Content-Type: text/plain;
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A couple days ago I said that I been troubled for several years that
something obvious was being overlooked in trying to positively identify this
photo location.  It's a nice day in suburban Pittsburgh, so I put my
distractions aside and spent my lunch hour visiting Allenport.  En route I
stopped at the PTM Library to recover my ledger book full of interurban
track sketches that I had copied years ago.

Last evening I had assembled two basic documents on the subject:  1) Tom
Phillips's drawing of Allenport, showing a long passing siding in the middle
of Main Street and the track on an old highway alignment, labeled "circa
1940," and 2) a PRC abandonment route map that showed the alignment through
Allenport as being solely on Main Street.  Needless to say, these were in
conflict with one another, and neither one supported my argument for the
location.

I believe that Tom's map has been circulated to the group.  The PRC map is
unwieldy and shows nothing I didn't describe.

The track sketches, however were most revealing, and I immediately
understood what was being overlooked.  It also reminded me that I had failed
to observe Rule #1:  Test Everything.  The passing siding shown on Tom's map
"circa 1940" had been removed in 1934.  To compound the problem, we have all
been thinking that the siding was at the north end of town.  Once sketch
34-029 disabused me of that notion, I drove directly to the spot that today
allows the same long view as the 1952 photo.  The PCC photo that Phil posted
was helpful...it gave an indication of something other than weeds on a
hillside at the left.  That in fact is PA 88; the road dead ahead is the
entrance to the Wheeling-Pittsburgh steel mill, from whence I took today's
pictures.

The following attachments clearly identify the location:

"Track Sketch 25-084" shows the siding in the center of Main Street.

"Track Sketch 34-029" shows the revision made in 1934, with the siding
clearly at the SOUTH end of town.

Photo "South Main Street, Allenport" shows the same view, including a brick
house with a double window at the roof peak

Photo "1852 Main Street, Allenport" shows that house and that window.  It's
at the southeast corner of Main and Washington Streets.

Case closed.

Ed

P.S.  Tom's map shows the car line on the old highway alignment; PRC's map
doesn't.  Tom was right about this...the grade is still very evident.

P.P.S.  The fifth attachment is the view north at Mapleview, clearly
demonstrating why it couldn't be the location.

http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/Track%20Sketch%2025-084.jpg

http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/Track%20Sketch%2034-029.jpg

http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/S%20Main%20St%20Allenport%2012-9-11.jpg

http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/1852%20Main%20St%20Allenport%2012-9-11.jpg

http://lists.dementix.org/files/pittsburgh-railways/View%20N%20Mapleview%2012-9-11.jpg