[PRCo] Re: Westside Cars

[Dwight Long]

Fred

Six cars was the number developed by EB&S as necessary to replace the by then quite outdated St. Louis cars in Bell route local service.  Easton Division 214 series cars were first planned for modernization for this service, but when test runs showed their steps to be too low to clear third rail change devices at Norristown, that idea was scrapped and LVT entered the used car market.

It has often been asked why the entire Stream Line fleet of the fine 1926 Kuhlmanns was not acquired by LVT.  There were eight of these cars built.  One was involved in an accident on the SEL&BVT and was either scrapped or cannibalized for parts;  its actual demise date is unknown.  But that still left seven;  seemingly it would have made sense for LVT to acquire all of them, since the price was attractive.  Why not?  Because EB&S had determined that six cars were required, so six cars is what LVT got.

The Allentown Division had authority to, and did, acquire twenty two “new” (second hand) city cars.  The purchase was divided:  Green Bay 2;  Huntington 14; and 6 Jamestown.  The remaining 600 and 214 series cars were then relegated to spare car status or scrapped.

The EB&S plans were of course formulated without a crystal ball showing the needs that WW II would impose on LVT. Additional cars, to include the seventh car from SEL&BVT and the West Side cars, would have been of immense help then.  But it was too late and these were gone.  As it was, LVT managed by running the wheels off what they had and even re-converting some work equipment to passenger duty.

And then there is the story that LVT, because of war time patronage, secured ODT approval to purchase the DE PCCs that ultimately went to Dallas.  But that is, as they say, a “whole nother story.”

Dwight

From: Fred Schneider 
Sent: Thursday, 22 December, 2011 10:02
To: pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org 
Subject: [PRCo] Re: Westside Cars
I never was aware that they intended them for intra division locals on the Philadelphia Divisions.   Obviously, if that was their intent, the SEL&BVT cars were a much better choice.  

I simply assumed it might have been to get rid of the last of the older cars such as the 600s from the teens that were still running in Allentown city service in the 1930s.  There was also some sparodic use of some 200s from old Easton Limited Service at the time the Westside cars were purchased.   

And, of course, they had the St. Looies from back when the earth was cooling that were the original Liberty Bell route cars that were still soldiering on as locals on the Bell Route.   



On Dec 21, 2011, at 11:53 PM, Dwight Long wrote:

> 
> Fred
> 
> The impetus for LVT not using the Westside cars, which in addition to 
> regauging, would have required substantial rebuilding and upgrading to make 
> them acceptable as Liberty Bell Route tripper cars, was the availability of 
> six of the SEL&BVT Kuhlmans of 1926, which required virtually NO rework for 
> LVT's purposes.  LVT did do some sheet metal changes and other mainly 
> cosmetic work on the "Steubenvilles."  They lasted a year longer than the 
> Bell, but all, regrettably, went to their demise at Bethlehem Steel in 1952.
> 
> Dwight
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Fred Schneider" <fwschneider at comcast.net>
> To: <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 9:26 PM
> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Will wonders never cease?
> 
> 
>> Webster, Monessen, Belle Vernon and Fayette City. It shared carbarn and 
>> officers with Westside.   In 1926 they both bought three identical Kuhlman 
>> lightweight cars.   For all intents, the two companies were one and the 
>> same.   The both quit in 1933 and their six newer cars found their way to 
>> Allentown, PA after about five years sitting idle in the barn in 
>> Charleroi. Lehigh Valley Transit then changed its mind about spending the 
>> money to regauge them and sold them instead to Virginia Electric and 
>> Power.   VE&P had a dual gauge operation in Norfolk ... South Norfolk was 
>> broad gauge.   I think the line through to the Naval Base might also have 
>> been wide gauge.   I don't remember all the numbers in Norfolk but 703 was 
>> of the Charleroi cars.
>> 
>> 
>> On Dec 21, 2011, at 8:39 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
>> 
>>> :-D)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Derrick Brashear <shadow at gmail.com>
>>> To: "pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org" <pittsburgh-railways at dementix.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 8:26 PM
>>> Subject: [PRCo] Re: Will wonders never cease?
>>> 
>>> Monessen belle vernon webster and east bumf*ck. I don't remember but it's 
>>> something ludicrous
>>> 
>>> Derrick
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
>