[PRCo] Re: Fw: Changing Track Switches

[Herb Brannon]

Jim, good to hear from you again. I can fill in some of what you have
written.
Shaker Heights RT would raise one pole on 2, 3, or 4 car trains. The problem
is that sometimes it would be the pole on the lead car and sometimes the
pole on the rear car. So I have to do more research into exactly where the
overhead contactor was located at Shaker Blvd and Van Aken Blvd.

I had asked about San Francisco because I have seen photos taken (after
reconstruction in the late 1970s/early 80s) at the West Portal of the Twin
Peaks Tunnel showing a man sitting on a chair at the switch on the Eastbound
track. The guy had a switch iron in his hand and apparently would throw the
switch manually depending if a car wanted to continue into the tunnel or
make a left turn on Ulloa Street. It gave the appearance that the new (at
that time) Boeing cars had no way to throw switches.

As for not dropping sand on the 35/36/37 lines. When I started operating the
PCCs in 1973 that was the ironclad rule. However, by 1975 that was out the
window and they didn't seem to have any more problems that the usual with a
system which was early 20th Century tech. They did still use the magnetic
track brake track cleaners however and always put those cars on the 35 and
36. The 36 was Nachod signals with overhead contactors anyway.

As for switches setting themselves by themselves. The switch on the Inbound
track at S Hills Jct in front of the Route Foremans office at the
Administration Building would take a fit and set itself for the curve into
the old 44, 47 tracks. It did it to me one time. I was loading passengers.
Fortunately it sounded like a gun firing each time it would throw. I heard
it and looked and sure enough it had reset for the curve to go around the
Administration Building. I got out and set it back with the switch iron then
had to explain to the Route Foreman that, no, I did not want to go around
the Admin Bldg. It finally quit doing that when all the equipment associated
with the derail just ahead of that switch was removed.

It was a rule that we were not to actually "power" the PCC car to set the
switch. I operated every PCC in the fleet and never had a track switch
toggle fail. PATransit rail operations in the 1970s and early 80s still ran
on Pittsburgh Railways Company methods of operation and still had many
former PRCo employees working. Those employees knew how to keep an old
system running.

Thanks for the information.









On Mon, Feb 28, 2011 at 10:52, Phillip Clark Campbell <pcc_sr at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Mr.Brannon
>
> I wrote to Mr.Holland in San Francisco;  included are
> details of the system there.
>
>
>
> Phil
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded Message ----
> From: "-> PRCo-- Holland James B.
> To: Phillip Clark Campbell
> Sent: Mon, February 27, 2011 9:26:58 PM
> Subject: Re: Changing Track Switches
>
> Good Morning, Phil  --  Greetings,   Herb!!,
>
>
> The old system of  Power On  (toggle on many but not all PCCs)
> or  Coast  through an overhead contactor can still be used with
> both pans and // or poles;  trains of cars using an overhead
> collector then need special circuitry to prevent other cars
>  in the trains from resetting the turnout while the train passes
>  over  same!       Toronto, Boston, Shaker etc. did use
> PCC trains;  I am not familiar with their operations when
> several poles on the train are raised.
>
> To get around the special circuits needed for trains and
> overhead contact activated turnouts,  San Francisco Muni
> surface electric turnouts are activated by  'track circuitry'
> so any rail car can activate them.       This is accompanied
> by a 3-aspect signal,  all  'white'  lights:::
>
>   1. Vertical Bar for straight through
>   2. Angled or Horizontal Bar Pointing toward Diverge
>   3. Round White Light
>
> Every  "X"-seconds  (5-10-seconds)  either the Vertical or
> Angled Bar display, never both.       An operator will watch
> this signal and move his train into the  Track Block
> immediately ahead of the turnout when he gets the correct
> display  --  Straight Through or Diverge.       The point will set,
> or remain set if already in the correct position,  and the round
> white light will display to show it is  'Locked.'       The track
> block is long enough so that the following truck enters before
> the leading truck exits so any length train could pass through
> while keeping the turnout locked.       After the train leaves
> the track block the round white light extinguishes and the
> display of Vertical or Angle Bar resumes on timer.
>
> Being a native of Pittsburgh I am keenly aware that use
> of the sander is absolutely forbidden on the interurbans
> because it  'possibly'  breaks contact for the signaling
> system.       Several of 17-series  Interurbans had brushes
> mounted in the track brake to continually sweep the track
> clear.       A light outside the door side front windshield
> revealed that this brush was activated.       I, personally,
> did not use sand at these track circuits.       I mentioned
> this problem to the Powers That Be but it was ignored.
>
> Church and Duboce is where the J & N lrvs enter //
> leave the subway;  surface PCCs have a switch
> immediately ahead of the portal to run around the
> subway entrance to Market Street.       The inbound
> switch activates through the track circuits.       I was
> piloting a 2-car N-train OB, stopped behind a J in front
> of me that was sitting on top of the special work for the
> surface car diverge.       As it  was a rainy day, the
> operator of a 2-car N train inbound used Sand all the
> way across the intersection.       He  'apparently'
> received the light to confirm the point was set  "But"
> the sand apparently interrupted the circuit, the last
> truck set the point for Market Street, so the tail of the
> 2-car train smashed into the side of the train ahead
> of me with considerable force.       Literally seconds
> before that an Inspector was talking to the operator
> using the operators left side window!
> Muni never did issue a bulletin about sanding.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ________________________________
>
> When operated by overhead contactor, this contactor
> was placed  "about 1-Car Length Plus 8-feet"  ahead
> of the point.       This would  prevent a following car from
> resetting the point before the previous car cleared the
> turnout.       With the rear king pin being about 12-feet
> in from the back, the last axle // wheel set is 9-feet
> from the back so a following car can't possibly reset
> the point for the leader.       This can't happen with track
> circuit switches because they lock in position  --
> if a following train enters the block before cleared then
> the point remains set unless moved manually.
>
> Subway turnouts are thrown by Dispatcher and or computer.
>       Bypass toggles are located at the turnout;  if the turnout
> is set incorrectly the operator stops the train at the toggle and
> just reaches out his window to reset.      But it is slow,
> maybe a minute before a signal to proceed is obtained.
>
> The  Market street historic cars use a coil embedded in the
> street at the turnout;  pressing toggles inside activates the
> coil when the car passes over it.       I do not know the exact
> details;  sorry.       To my knowledge,  lrvs have not been
> retrofitted with this system;  they still use the track circuitry
> on the surface.
>
> ________________________________
>
> ________________________________
>
> Our TrolleyCoaches  'did'  use  "Selectric"  turnouts with
> several power turnouts on the system.       "Selectric"
> uses overhead contactors right at the points.       They are
> staggered so that they are activated one at a time for going
> straight through.       When a coach takes the 'diverge' both
> contactors are hit at the  same time, the points then set for
> the turn, and immediately upon clearing the shoe activates
> a lever to reset the points to straight.       The Power
> switches, like for PCCs, were too sensitive and activated
> when not wanted.       They are totally eliminated.
>
> Many Selectrics are gone but replaced with a system using a
> radio signal that work off the turn signal thus there are three
> signals sent to an antenna loop on the curb side overhead
> before the turnout:  Right, Left, And Straight.       If this
> signal generator fails one can't set switches!       Solar
> flares are known to interrupt whole power grids, cell
> phones, satellite transmissions, plane signals, etc. and
> apparently these switches.       We had a terrible time for a
> month or two in the  early 1990s with trolley poles going every
> which direction but the correct.      I detailed this in a report
> with dates, times, places, even switches I was walking by
> that activated without a coach in sight:       Nothing in the
> form of a bulletin from Muni.       SEPTA  is often referred
> to as  INEPTA  but that Title Belongs to the San Francisco Muni!!
>
> ________________________________
>
> ________________________________
>
> Nothing is ever clear cut.       "In the Good 'Ol Days"  of
> overhead contactors,  PRCo  forbade operators using
> the power pedal to set the points for diverge;  it was
> just the opposite in San Francisco.       While the SF PCCs
> had the toggle,  most didn't work!       On the  Muni 1101s
> (ex-SLPS cars)  the track toggle actually engaged the drum
> brakes  "Only"  if power was modestly applied;  this drew
> extra power through the contactor to set the point.
> Using the track brake with power was Far More Effective~!!!
>       But the tens didn't have either mode for track setting;
> Baby Tens did have toggle which usually didn't work so
> one had to hit the power and brake after the point set~!!!
>
> TTC  and  SLPS  used  "Necessity Action."
> I do not know the exact details but  'apparently'  action was
> only needed to change the point;  if it is set for the correct
> direction nothing need be done.
>
> Boston,  DCT,  and possibly Baltimore used  "Another"
> system.        "All"  turnouts were assigned Right and Left
> "Legs"  regardless of configuration:
>
>    * Coast thru contactor for Left  LEG
>    * Power thru contactor for Right LEG
>    * Thus using  "Power"  on a left turnout one would go
>          straight through the Right  "Leg."
>    * Using Power on a right turnout one would diverge to the right,
>          again the Right  "Leg."
>
> Nothing is standardized;  each operator can claim unique
> needs.       There are probably dozens of other systems out there.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> On 2011.02.27 9:15 PM, Phillip Clark Campbell wrote:
> > Mr.Holland,
> >
> > Could you indicate how SF Muni lrvs operated track switches?
> >
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message ----
> > From: Herb Brannon <hrbran at cavtel.net>
> > To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org
> > Sent: Sun, February 27, 2011 8:29:37 PM
> > Subject: [PRCo] Changing Track Switches
> >
> > As we know, PRCo/PATransit PCC car (using trolley poles)
>  operators changed automatic track switches by using the
>  "Track Switch" control on the dash. Now with the PAT
>  LRV cars (using pantographs) the routes and switches
>  are set by computer. This is also true in Cleveland on the
>  entire Red Line and the Green and Blue (former Shaker
>  Hgts Rapid) Lines as far East as E. 79th Station.
>  After that its back to old style manual control on the
>  Shaker lines. Now, SEPTA still uses trolley poles so the
>  "Track Switch" on the operators console is probably still
>  there and is used. On the other hand,  most systems now
>  use pantographs. Like for instance MUNI in San Francisco
>  and I'm sure they have a lot of switches to go through.
>  My question is, how do the systems using pantograph
>  current collection change track switches? I know how it's
>  done in Cleveland, but not other places. Anyone know?
> > --
>  > Herb Brannon
> > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
>
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Herb Brannon
In Cuyahoga Valley National Park