[PRCo] Re: Historical Question

[Dwight Long]

Herb

St. Petersburg (Leningrad) was ONCE a great system, but it has been decimated in recent years.  Well run?  NOT.  It is so starved for funds that it cannot keep enough cars in service to maintain schedules.  Much track is so corrugated that any speed over 5-10 mph is impossible to attain.

During the last decade I rode all available track there.  Probably 50% of what I rode is now history.  What is left is largely Balkanized into Metro connectors.  Sad.

If you want to ride a "great, well run, transit system" that really is, try Wien, Osterreich (Vienna, Austria for westerners).  And it's a lot easier to get to than St. Petersburg!

Dwight
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Herb Brannon 
  To: pittsburgh-railways at dementia.org 
  Sent: Monday, 14 February, 2011 20:20
  Subject: [PRCo] Re: Historical Question


  Well, I operated the "new" stuff over the last year and six months I was
  working. Cleveland's LRVs are all rebuilds and now sport new builders plates
  showing both Breda and whoever did the complete rebuilds. The RTA heavy rail
  were still the original 1981-92 models. Being used to PCC control systems I
  find the LRVs to be clumsy to operate. The heavy rail, however, were nice
  and smooth. From West 65/Lorain to Brookpark, unless there was a slow-down
  order or a work crew I got them to top speed of 65mph. This was between each
  station, of course.
  I have be on BART several times. In fact I used to use my BART farecard in
  the Washington Metro turnstiles and my Washington Metro farecard in the BART
  turnstiles just because it could be done. Both systems have identical fare
  collection equipment and media.

  On a recent trip to Pittsburgh I was happy to see that PATransit still uses
  three pedal control in the new LRVs. The original PATransit LRVs allowed the
  operator to pick either hand or foot control. I was talking with the
  operator on that trip to Pgh and told him how the hand control system on the
  Cleveland LRVs worked. He too was glad for foot control.

  I would like to ride a Tatra PCC but don't know if I'll ever make it to
  that part of the planet to do so. A friend of mine in St. Petersburg, who is
  a streetcar conductor, wants me to visit him so he can show me what he
  refers to as "our great, well run, transit system". If it were St.
  Petersburg, FL I would go, however, northern Russia near the Baltic Sea is a
  bit far. It would, however, be an excellent adventure.

  On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 18:22, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net>wrote:

  > But don't stop Herb.
  >
  > The new stuff is fun too.
  >
  > I'll admit that those old subway cars in Berlin and Paris and London and
  > Philadelphia and New York City "made all the right sounds."   But the new
  > stuff is absolutely amazing ... whisper quiet acceleration that is just so
  > smooth you hardly feel it.    It was stunning the first time I rode a BART
  > train in catch up mode at 80 mph.   This is a subway?   Hard to believe!
  >
  > Look at that tape of the Prague light rail car I forwarded.  Even the final
  > generation of PCCs from Tatra were uncommonly smooth and that technology is
  > already past tense.
  >
  >
  > On Feb 14, 2011, at 5:10 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
  >
  > > I had forgotten about the Brilliners I rode on the PST along with the
  > > non-PCC PCCs. Also, all the numerous trips I took (while in high school)
  > on
  > > the Baltimore & Ohio RR between Akron and Pittsburgh and two times
  > between
  > > Akron and Washington and three times between Akron and Cleveland
  > including
  > > the last day of operation on the Cleveland-Akron line. Interestingly
  > enough,
  > > now I am a conductor on that same line between Akron and Cleveland. Also,
  > > one "grand" trip from Akron to Philadelphia using the Baltimore & Ohio
  > and
  > > the Pennsylvania to get there and back with an interesting change of
  > trains
  > > and stations in Baltimore. Even on the "newer" AMTRAK (1980s and 90s) I
  > > have been on the Texas Eagle (Austin-Chicago), the Empire Builder (3
  > round
  > > trips Chicago-Sparta, WI), the Auto Train (3 trips Washington-Sanford
  > FL),
  > > plus many Capitol Limited trips (Pittsburgh-Chicago and
  > > Pittsburgh-Washington, DC). Every one of the AMTRAK trips was first class
  > > and is worth the extra fare.
  > > Then, when you include all the older subway, elevated and rapid transit
  > > trains in Chicago, New York, Philadelphia, Toronto, and Boston, I guess I
  > > have experienced a lot of retro-rail.
  > >
  > > On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 23:58, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net
  > >wrote:
  > >
  > >> Don't we both.
  > >>
  > >> Or how about John Bowman's trip on the Cincinnati and Lake Erie.   He
  > >> started out of Toledo in the morning, dashed down to Springfield, then
  > up
  > >> the branch to Columbus, back to Springfield and then down to Cincinnati
  > in
  > >> the same day.  If you look at the timetable, that had to make one's
  > >> posterior a little sore.
  > >>
  > >> There was another trip he talked about that I think we might have all
  > loved
  > >> to have done.   I know Bill Moedinger talked John into this one because
  > >> Bill's all consuming love were those slim-gauge lines in Colorado.   Can
  > you
  > >> imagine sitting up all night in a coach set on the Burlington from
  > Chicago
  > >> to Denver, after having ridding in a coach the previous day from
  > Lancaster
  > >> to Chicago.   As soon as you get to Denver, you  walk to the other
  > platform
  > >> in Union Station and board an old wooden coach for that all day ride
  > from
  > >> Denver to Como to Leadville on the Colorado & Southern.   If I remember
  > the
  > >> story correctly, lunch was in the station beanery in Como.    I think a
  > bed
  > >> in a hotel that evening in Leadville must have felt mighty good even if
  > the
  > >> floors did slope!   I wonder if when you landed in bed, you felt that
  > the
  > >> room was still moving?
  > >>
  > >> In 1939 and 1940 the railroads of this country sold a ticket for an
  > >> extravagant $100 allowing you to see both World's Fairs by route you
  > chose.
  > >>  That was the coach fare ... sleeper was extra.   If you adjust that for
  > >> inflation, that would be about $1,200 today.  No big bargain.    John
  > Bowman
  > >> and Leon Franks (Leon was the NRHS Bulletin editor at the time) went
  > from
  > >> Lancaster to York, then down the Northern Central to Baltimore, and down
  > the
  > >> Pennsylvania mainline to Washington.   Then they used the Southern and
  > >> Western of Alabama to New Orleans.   The Southern Pacific took them to
  > Los
  > >> Angeles.   They were supposed to go over the SD&AE from Yuma to San
  > Diego
  > >> but it was washed out so they were instead given a round trip from Los
  > >> Angeles to San Diego.   While in San Diego they rode some of the PE
  > routes.
  > >>  Then up the coast to San Francisco.   John had no pictures of the fair
  > but
  > >> I know he rode Key System.   He had pictures of Sacramento Northern as
  > far
  > >> as Pittsburg.   Then he !
  > >> used the SP to Seattle and the Milwaukee back to Chicago and the Pennsy
  > >> home.   And he still had the coupon left for a round trip to New York
  > City.
  > >>
  > >> Jim Shuman, George Krambles, Bill Janssen made a similar trip but they
  > had
  > >> more time constraints.  They went out on the Milwaukee, rode the whole
  > >> Sacramento Northern from Chico to San Francisco, and used the SP/ UP
  > back to
  > >> Chicago and the Pennsy home.   Jim remembered that they smelled a little
  > >> like wild game by the time they got to San Francisco and found a Chinese
  > >> laundry!    He also recalled that the wild west wasn't dead yet when
  > they
  > >> were in Butte, MT ... he was standing on one of the lesser unpaved
  > streets
  > >> with a board sidewalk in time to see someone come sailing through the
  > >> swinging doors of a saloon.   So much for 1940.   I wonder if Jim got a
  > >> discount ... the PRR portion would have normally been free because he
  > was
  > >> working for them at that time.
  > >>
  > >> And every one of those friends I knew are dead.    Shuman and Moedinger
  > >> passed away in 2010.   Bowman might have been six years ago.   Krambles
  > has
  > >> been gone for 12 years.   Leon Franks has been out of the picture so
  > long
  > >> I've lost track ... could be 20 years.   I think Bill Janssen passed
  > away
  > >> about 2005.
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >> On Feb 13, 2011, at 11:00 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
  > >>
  > >>> Thanks for the photo captions.
  > >>> Even today I look back at the streetcars I have ridden in my lifetime,
  > >> even
  > >>> though limited to a few Peter Witts and lots of PCCs in many cities,
  > this
  > >> is
  > >>> something that many younger people will never be able to do in their
  > >>> lifetimes. Throw in a mix of Brill, St Louis Car Co, and Pullman
  > Standard
  > >>> trackless trolleys in several cities and that's even more which I have
  > >> seen
  > >>> and experienced that many never will. I wish I could have experienced
  > the
  > >>> Indiana Railroad 1931 lightweight highspeeds, especially the
  > >> parlor-lounge
  > >>> types and the route from Indianapolis to Louisville. Then too I have
  > been
  > >>> able to operate PCCs in Pittsburgh, something that many wish they could
  > >> have
  > >>> done.
  > >>>
  > >>> On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 14:21, Fred Schneider <fwschneider at comcast.net
  > >>> wrote:
  > >>>
  > >>>> Fantrip Herb!   ... M1, West Penn 832 and 3756 were operated under
  > their
  > >>>> own power to the museum site.  The next Monday the scrappers cut the
  > >> power
  > >>>> and continued ripping up the tracks from the museum site northward.
  > >>>> Dick Steinmetz told a story at an NRHS meeting in the Lancaster or
  > >>>> Harrisburg area that he had the fastest imaginable ride ever up
  > through
  > >>>> South Hills Tunnel that day in a single truck car.   He was in M-1 out
  > >> of
  > >>>> Ingram that day and the operator had the controller against the peg up
  > >>>> through the tunnel.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Either he or someone else told a neat story about stopping for lunch
  > in
  > >>>> Canonsburg.   Here were hundreds of guys flooding town looking for
  > food.
  > >>>> One restaurantier asked, "How did you all get here?"   He was told by
  > >>>> streetcar.   "But they quit running months ago?"   He was then told
  > >> about
  > >>>> the museum excursion.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Sometime after that vandals chopped down the trolley wire at the
  > museum
  > >>>> site and gutted some of the copper out of West Penn 832.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> I remember how Herman Rinke used to be one of those obnoxious types in
  > >> the
  > >>>> ERA office in New York City.   No matter what subject came up, he was
  > >> old
  > >>>> enough to always be able to jump in and say he had been there and see
  > it
  > >>>> all.   I guess I'm now old enough to be the same kind of S. O. B.
  > >>>> I have to admit guys there were things my mentors talked about that I
  > >>>> wished I had ridden.   I'm really not singing that song, "I've been
  > >>>> everywhere."
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Wouldn't it have been nice to have ridden the West Penn from Uniontown
  > >>>> through New Stanton to Connellsville like Steve Maguire did?    No I
  > >> didn't
  > >>>> ride that.   I never even rode the mainline.   Only rode a few blocks
  > in
  > >>>> Jeannette.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Or Altoona and Logan Valley from Altoona to Tyrone like my good buddy
  > >> John
  > >>>> Bowman did back in 1933?   Johnny also rode the Wilkes-Barre and
  > >> Hazleton
  > >>>> ... what a ride that must have been over two mountains.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> And Jim Shuman enjoyed the riding the Indiana Railroad from
  > Indianapolis
  > >> to
  > >>>> Peru to Fort Wayne to Anderson to Indianpolis to Louisville and even
  > to
  > >>>> Terre Haute.   WOW!    Jim talked about going to Allentown to see the
  > >> first
  > >>>> ex C&LE cars on display before they went into service in 1940.   I was
  > >> just
  > >>>> born then.   I never even rode the Liberty Bell route ... only saw the
  > >> city
  > >>>> cars in Allentown in 1952, the year before they quit.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> And my old vacation companion Donald Duke told this great story about
  > >> his
  > >>>> dad's card playing buddy coming into the Duke home and saying, "Do you
  > >> know
  > >>>> what your son has been doing after dinner?   Seem that one evening
  > >> President
  > >>>> Smith got onto one of his cars and found the motorman studying for his
  > >>>> college classes and the conductor sitting back in the rear corner of
  > the
  > >>>> car.   After chatting with both of them he asked, "And who is running
  > >> the
  > >>>> car?"   Turns out that Don Duke used to go out after dinner and spell
  > >> the
  > >>>> motorman so he could study ... Don made a round trip from San Marino
  > to
  > >>>> Glendora.   "Your son is a good motorman ... better than a lot of our
  > >> men
  > >>>> ... but we have to stop letting him do this," Smith is alleged to have
  > >> said
  > >>>> to Norman Duke.     Don could have written the book, "I was a teenage
  > >>>> motorman."    Don't I wish I had the same chance!
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Sad that all these old friends are now dead....
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Friday night I drove to a Tractioneers meeting in Washington DC.   Ara
  > >>>> Mesrobian asked how I could still drive all the way down and back in
  > one
  > >>>> night.   He said he would be camped in a hotel!    I guarantee in a
  > few
  > >> more
  > >>>> years I will understand Ara.   I no longer drive to Pittsburgh and
  > home
  > >> just
  > >>>> to get an Eat 'n Park hamburger!
  > >>>>
  > >>>> Oh well, my fun and games was pulling leverss at the Pennsy's
  > >> interlocking
  > >>>> plant in Lancaster during the summer of 1957 when the regular block
  > >> operator
  > >>>> was sick.    Then there was the chap at the local bus company who
  > worked
  > >>>> evenings with me at Sears Roebuck ... after the store shut down, we
  > >> would go
  > >>>> to the garage.   He would fuel the buses and I would drive them into
  > the
  > >>>> garage.
  > >>>>
  > >>>> We all have our stories, don't we.....
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>> On Feb 13, 2011, at 1:19 PM, Herb Brannon wrote:
  > >>>>
  > >>>>> On or about February 7, 1954 a low floor car (3756?) was moved from
  > >>>>> Pittsburgh to Arden. How was the car moved; under it's own power (if
  > >> the
  > >>>>> PRCo tracks to Washington PA were still intact) or on a truck?
  > >>>>> --
  > >>>>> Herb Brannon
  > >>>>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>> --
  > >>> Herb Brannon
  > >>> In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >>
  > >
  > >
  > > --
  > > Herb Brannon
  > > In Cuyahoga Valley National Park
  > >
  > >
  > >
  >
  >
  >
  >


  -- 
  Herb Brannon
  In Cuyahoga Valley National Park